Aluminum Coils vs Copper Coils pricing?

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Thank you.. About time some figured that out.. haha

your point was addressed several posts back. There's more to a sub then the material used for the VC. It also has to be manufactured/assembled.

Copper HDC is built in china, alum HDC is built in the USA. When AQ switched to the chinese build house and went from the HD (american made) to the HDC (chinese made) they actually lowered the selling price of the sub considerably...

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

I want to get the alums just b/c I know they'll disipate the heat better but if coppers would be louder and more efficient with lower power, should I get the coppers instead?

A copper coil will be heavier (less efficient 1w/1m).. will disipate heat better, and should handle more power...

If there is some outstanding difference between the aluminum and copper coils AQ uses where the aluminum coil can handle more power; it probably has more to do with the adhesives used to hold the coil together rather then the type of wire used...

This post should be asking why the American made coil is more expensive.. which should be obvious..

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

A copper coil will be heavier (less efficient 1w/1m).. will disipate heat better, and should handle more power...
If there is some outstanding difference between the aluminum and copper coils AQ uses where the aluminum coil can handle more power; it probably has more to do with the adhesives used to hold the coil together rather then the type of wire used...

This post should be asking why the American made coil is more expensive.. which should be obvious..

copper is more efficient, alum handles more power and it has nothing to do with the glue used to build them.

I've seen plenty of AQ test graphs and have played around with a bunch of their subs with various copper and alum recones and my results are the same as what they've found in testing, so not sure where you came up with your

"facts" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

assuming you meant 2000-2200 per sub then I'd get the coppers.

Yea thats what I meant. Trying to wait for the new AQ 3500d.1's to come out so I can power the 4 18's.

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Yea thats what I meant. Trying to wait for the new AQ 3500d.1's to come out so I can power the 4 18's.

2 of those strapped at 2ohm would be fine. With solid electrical you could wire them down lower for metering.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

I think everyone missed Retro's point. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

His point was already made...I was merly asking a question. Didn't want to make ANOTHER thread about alums and copper coils.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

With the AQ you are not comparing apples to applies... the copper is a 4-layer round and the aluminum is an 8-layer flat. This is why the aluminum handles more power.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

2 of those strapped at 2ohm would be fine. With solid electrical you could wire them down lower for metering.

Exactly what I plan to do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Should be hella loud. I guess the coppers will do fine in my setup, just thought the alums would do better. I guess I can save a few and get the coppers. Either way, I know I'll be happy in the end. Thanks

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

With the AQ you are not comparing apples to applies... the copper is a 4-layer round and the aluminum is an 8-layer flat. This is why the aluminum handles more power.

I already understood that, which is what I based my first decision. What made me ask the question is everyone was saying with lower power around 2k, the copper coils were louder, more efficient, and for some reason sound "better" than the alums at that same power.

Now if I was pushing each sub to ab 3k each then I would already know which coil to go with. I was merly trying to see if the extra cash dished out was worth it in the end. Thanks for your 2 cents with this comparison though. EDIT: (Not being sarcastic/condescending)

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

The copper coils are heavier and have a lower Fs -- this can result in more low-end extension.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

The copper coils are heavier and have a lower Fs -- this can result in more low-end extension.

Oh, thats why they say the coppers sound better. I guess that has truth to it b/c I've also been told that the alums have a more of a "punchy" tight sound to it when the bass hits.

 

[Kyle_Keating 10+ year member]

I actually don't think flatwire handles much more power if any, in fact they are if anything more fragile than the round wire for one obvious reason. When you increase the voltage across the coil, we start to create enough of a voltage difference between the layers to potentially create arcing or shorting. This is going to be much more sensitive to flatwire because the contact is much higher AND (more importantly) the ceramic insulation that is used on the wire is weaker because of the process in how they make flatwire. Unless its anodized wire, the wire is coated, then flattened. I think the best you can do is about 4:1 and that is pushing it, anything more will likely crack the insulation. Round wire just avoids those issues but does have as much packing density. So you might get about 5-10% more BL with flatwire because of the extra conductor, of course there will be more mass with that BL do, but the point is you fill the air gap better which is always good. I don't believe flatwire it is as durable as round.

As far as AL vs Cu, AL wins out in just about every category. If you're just doing SPL burps at tuning, the contest might be a lot closer because we don't care about mass as much, but i have not done tests myself. If you're talking about full range "daily" - hate that stupid word, then AL is what you want. It has 60% the conductivity of copper with 1/3rd the weight.

 

[RetroAudioinc 5,000+ posts]

Lots of brain nugests.. I know my question got answered.. But your answering a lot of others in here as well.

The copper coils are heavier and have a lower Fs -- this can result in more low-end extension.

Can you do an 8 layer copper and would it take more power and get lower then the 4 layer? Do you have copper coils for the nightshades or just alums?

If there is a good bit of sound difference in the same motor why do others not offer 2 coils in the same motor like AQ? Seems like a good way to get more out of one product to me.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

I actually don't think flatwire handles much more power if any, in fact they are if anything more fragile than the round wire for one obvious reason. When you increase the voltage across the coil, we start to create enough of a voltage difference between the layers to potentially create arcing or shorting. This is going to be much more sensitive to flatwire because the contact is much higher AND (more importantly) the ceramic insulation that is used on the wire is weaker because of the process in how they make flatwire. Unless its anodized wire, the wire is coated, then flattened. I think the best you can do is about 4:1 and that is pushing it, anything more will likely crack the insulation. Round wire just avoids those issues but does have as much packing density. So you might get about 5-10% more BL with flatwire because of the extra conductor, of course there will be more mass with that BL do, but the point is you fill the air gap better which is always good. I don't believe flatwire it is as durable as round.
As far as AL vs Cu, AL wins out in just about every category. If you're just doing SPL burps at tuning, the contest might be a lot closer because we don't care about mass as much, but i have not done tests myself. If you're talking about full range "daily" - hate that stupid word, then AL is what you want. It has 60% the conductivity of copper with 1/3rd the weight.

So you're saying that even if the flat wire is less durable and have a higher potiential for failures, that its still a better "daily" choice than the copper coils?

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I lost almost around a dB going to an 8-layer flat copper from an 8-layer flat aluminum coil... it was just that much heavier. I gained motor force and still got quieter.