Aftermarket head unit void warranty?

[NFrazier 10+ year member]

Only problem, do you have the legal resources to fight a dealership, warranty company, or the automaker themselves under the Magnuson-Moss Act? Sure you may win in the end, but when you pay $15k in legal fees to fix a $5k issue, at some point you need to ask yourself "is it worth it?"

Well:

The Act makes it easier for purchasers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and by allowing consumers to recover court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. This means that if you lose a lawsuit for breach of either a written or an implied warranty, you may have to pay the customer's costs for bringing the suit, including lawyer's fees.

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[gunz4me2 10+ year member]

Well:
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All that tells me is that the person suing for breach of warranty is out of pocket the attorney's fees and court costs until they win... That is, assuming they win.

So that leads me to my initial question, would you pay $15k in attorney's fees and court costs that will take months, if not years, to recover your $5k claim that they denied coverage on in the first place? That seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through just to prove a point. Regardless, it is not as easy as just showing a dealership a copy of the act when one feels they were arbitrarily denied warranty coverage. Dealerships and technicians started getting smarter and smarter in recent years and look for all kinds of ways to void the warranty by citing end user tampering or damage.

 

[NFrazier 10+ year member]

All that tells me is that the person suing for breach of warranty is out of pocket the attorney's fees and court costs until they win... That is, assuming they win.
So that leads me to my initial question, would you pay $15k in attorney's fees and court costs that will take months, if not years, to recover your $5k claim that they denied coverage on in the first place? That seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through just to prove a point. Regardless, it is not as easy as just showing a dealership a copy of the act when one feels they were arbitrarily denied warranty coverage. Dealerships and technicians started getting smarter and smarter in recent years and look for all kinds of ways to void the warranty by citing end user tampering or damage.

Well if you'd really like me to cite case law I can do so. I've covered numerous amounts of cases revolving around MMA (last year of law school). I will tell you that normally you don't just get the money they outed you along w/ attorney fees (judges arn't really inclined to allow dealerships to walk on a consumer - or consumers). Not to mention that lawyers don't necessary charge by the hour, but will charge a % at the end if you win. It depends.

Smarter? Where are you seeing this? I deal with dealerships and they definitely don't seem to be getting smarter. Not to mention that they can still claim "this" or "that" but PROVING it is a LOT different. Not to mention you're allowed witness(s) as well that can say otherwise.

So I guess it's really up to you. Personally if you want to fork out $5k and get screwed over by a dealer, that's your prerogative.

 

[gunz4me2 10+ year member]

Well if you'd really like me to cite case law I can do so. I've covered numerous amounts of cases revolving around MMA (last year of law school). I will tell you that normally you don't just get the money they outed you along w/ attorney fees (judges arn't really inclined to allow dealerships to walk on a consumer - or consumers). Not to mention that lawyers don't necessary charge by the hour, but will charge a % at the end if you win. It depends.
Smarter? Where are you seeing this? I deal with dealerships and they definitely don't seem to be getting smarter. Not to mention that they can still claim "this" or "that" but PROVING it is a LOT different. Not to mention you're allowed witness(s) as well that can say otherwise.

So I guess it's really up to you. Personally if you want to fork out $5k and get screwed over by a dealer, that's your prerogative.

Aside from personal injury, you show me one attorney who will work for free and wait a couple of years to get paid in absence of a big payoff at the end. I have a client involved in a lawsuit right now that has spent close to $70k on legal fees alone this year for something that his business liability insurance should be covering. I know of a product liability case that has gone in excess of $300k in legal fees, and the court date is at least a year away. But hey, what do I know, I am just a CPA and litigation support is just one of the many services that I offer.

By smarter, look at what Ford started doing with regards to the 5.0 blowing up in the newer Mustangs. The first thing they did was issue a TSB for their technicians to check for is signs of ECU tampering or evidence that there was a non-Ford tune. What about the Raptors that were taken off road at high speed and had their frames bent? What about Subaru of America looking for evidence of parts swaps or ECU remapping when a WRX/STi comes in with a popped engine? I've even heard of dealerships pulling the tune from the ECU when the car goes in for something simple like an oil change and using that against the vehicle owner later on when an issue develops. In other words, the lowly consumer gets warranty blacklisted by VIN before an issue even pops up. Lastly, how many 2009 GT-R owners won under Magnuson-Moss when they blew up their transmissions using the Launch Control feature?

The point is, if they can reasonably prove that the consumer did something to cause the issue, that is going to be a long uphill battle fighting a company who has more financial resources than most consumers have. Even something as simple as a HU swap could result in denial of warranty. Something like that happened recently regarding a parking brake bypass where it screwed up the hill assist feature and fried something else in the ECU due to improper wiring.

As for me personally, I know the risks when I choose to modify a vehicle that is under warranty and accept the results of my own actions. I'm seriously considering putting equal length headers and a twin scroll turbo on my WRX with a custom dyno tune. If the engine pops, I would fully expect a denial of warranty coverage, but, I wouldn't even try in the first place. Then again, I may just trade for another car because as I grow older, the mod bug starts to diminish due to the potential issues associated with modding.

 

[NFrazier 10+ year member]

LMAO, dude you're referencing things that are CLOSELY related. The whole purpose of this thread was stating whether a ******* radio would void the warranty. So yes, if you twist this whole thing into saying that a tune caused something in the engine, that is plausible, then you definitely have a chance of losing.

I'm referencing a car dealership saying that the blower motor in the car went because aftermarket speakers were installed (not even on the same circuit, not even close to being related).

Or that an aftermarket radio caused their transmission to blow.

So in your instance, no, they arn't getting smarter, they just finally learned how the car works to begin with. **** if someone came in and said the radio I installed started causing the battery to drain in the car, I'd diagnose and test it. If I found that not only did someone tamper with and change wiring on what I did, but also added auxillary products to the vehicle, I'd inform them that I can test the new components and see what the actual draw is coming from but for them to know that someone has actually changed/altered something that directly correlates to the issue they are having.

So your argument may be valid but on the same token your argument is out of the realm of the original discussion, which the whole time I was referencing.

I'm wanting to replace the stock head unit in my 09 civic. But from the dealership, I have. 4 year bumper-to-bumper warranty. Now I'm wanting to know if taking out the stock head unit will void my entire warranty? I'm still waiting on a call back from the dealership about it.

Once again, if the aftermarket product that was installed can be causally related to the issue(s) you are having, then the dealership may have you by the balls. But stating right off the bat that replacing the radio VOIDS your warranty, is NOT permissible under the MMA. If something went wrong/broke BECAUSE of the radio, then the dealership can say that what BROKE is not covered by their warranty due to the aftermarket product but they CAN NOT say that because the part that broke was caused by the radio, that the REST of your warranty is void.

And there are plenty of lawyers out there that will take pro bono work. In fact its part of our oath to donate our services pro bono and/or to the under privileged as much as they can. Does that mean they do it? No. Does that mean a lawyer isn't willing to, especially if it can be coupled into a class-action? No.

This is not legal advice. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif