ACTIVE - Imaging - Center Image - Center focus

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Hi. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wave.gif.002382ce7d7c19757ab945cc69819de1.gif I'm James Bang. You may remember me from such threads like "Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc. " and "I'm inFInitely Baffled."

I try not to show it, but I am a noob and I just went active recently and I would like to know about imaging.

I noticed when I went active, by just having my own set crossover points, it didn't sound too much different from when I was passive. I mean.. it's should sound very similar right? Going active shouldn't change the frequency response of the speakers i've been using, right (Well, other than where my crossover points are) ?

So why do I see threads where people say their setup sounds so much better after they go active?

What sounds better? Is there sometime else that they are doing? Or is it all in their head, like what Deltron said in that Clint Eastwood song by Gorillas?

Now that I'm going active now and still sound the same, How do I go about getting good imaging?

Wat do you guys do for imaging after going active?

Oh, one thing that I do noticed is that I can now change the level between my mids and tweets better, almost like those attenuating switches/jumpers my passive xovers had. I wonder if you there was a way to be able to adjust the levels of every speaker seperately. That would be cool.

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[Etac 10+ year member]

well i agree with you on that, if the xovers pts were set at the same spot.. it shouldnt sound that different but

depending on the driver, crossing it differently has the potential to have a better response (or not)

directionality (is that a word?) shouldnt change much.. unless crossover points were changed drastically from the norm.. 3200 is a horrible spot (depending on driver placement) to cross in my opinion because thats basically one octive above when music gets really directional.. but this really isnt optional on most sets.. i would say 1.6 or ideally 800hz (at least) would be needed if you have you speakers low and upper midrange+ up high...

but i dont get why people say going from say 3200 to 2800 or similar makes such a big difference.. its most likely placebo affect... at least one octive is usually needed to hear at least a minor change.. unless there is a major peak or dip

 

[mcsoul 10+ year member]

Hi. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wave.gif.002382ce7d7c19757ab945cc69819de1.gif I'm James Bang. You may remember me from such threads like "Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc. " and "I'm inFInitely Baffled."
I try not to show it, but I am a noob and I just went active recently and I would like to know about imaging.

I noticed when I went active, by just having my own set crossover points, it didn't sound too much different from when I was passive. I mean.. it's should sound very similar right? Going active shouldn't change the frequency response of the speakers i've been using, right (Well, other than where my crossover points are) ?

So why do I see threads where people say their setup sounds so much better after they go active?

What sounds better? Is there sometime else that they are doing? Or is it all in their head, like what Deltron said in that Clint Eastwood song by Gorillas?

Now that I'm going active now and still sound the same, How do I go about getting good imaging?

Wat do you guys do for imaging after going active?

Oh, one thing that I do noticed is that I can now change the level between my mids and tweets better, almost like those attenuating switches/jumpers my passive xovers had. I wonder if you there was a way to be able to adjust the levels of every speaker seperately. That would be cool.

TA for imaging, gain for level (also my HU has level control for the crossover points) and then there is good ole balance control if needed.

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

Interesting topic. Typically, removing passive x-overs results in more pronounced dynamic contrasts, less restricted soundfield, and increased transparency. Tonal balance usually isn't effected if the x-over points and their config remains constant, as mentioned. Generally speaking, car audio has the resolution of a wet sock - no offence to anyone - and it's not surprising that you didn't note the relatively subtle improvements classically associated with the process. FWIW, having run active and passive systems, I don't bother with active anymore.

 

[cshaw 10+ year member]

ive been contemplating going active but due to funds its a no go for now. besides having more power available i wouldt expect it to sound any better just by moving the x/o point before the amp in the signal chain. unless the amp has crappy components. im no expert but i would think driver placement would have the most impact on imaging and soundstage. tuning is ment to merely help or fix what one cant deal with in speaker placement. hope this helped.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

TA for imaging, gain for level (also my HU has level control for the crossover points) and then there is good ole balance control if needed.

Would it be possible to get a center image without time alignment?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

well i agree with you on that, if the xovers pts were set at the same spot.. it shouldnt sound that different but
depending on the driver, crossing it differently has the potential to have a better response (or not)

directionality (is that a word?) shouldnt change much.. unless crossover points were changed drastically from the norm.. 3200 is a horrible spot (depending on driver placement) to cross in my opinion because thats basically one octive above when music gets really directional..but this really isnt optional on most sets.. i would say 1.6 or ideally 800hz (at least) would be needed if you have you speakers low and upper midrange+ up high...

but i dont get why people say going from say 3200 to 2800 or similar makes such a big difference.. its most likely placebo affect... at least one octive is usually needed to hear at least a minor change.. unless there is a major peak or dip

sorry, but

wat?

 

[Etac 10+ year member]

sorry, but

wat?

well i dont wanna hijack this thread cause that might of been a little off topic, and i could of worded it better..

im just saying that sound starts to become very directional in between 800-1,600hz.. (when on/off axis really start to become a factor) alot of common setups have the mids down low crossed at 3,200ish.. and tweeters up high.. so nwo you got a mid playing with "directionality" pointed basically at your leg.. and you got a tweet up high.. pointed where.. and it becomes too seperated and doesnt sound right IMO... unless you had lower freqencies included up high.. i would say at least 1600 hz or i would prefer 800 hz .. but this is all personally opinion.. i actually dont like my setup up high reguardless of crossover points

and since you were talking about going asctive i was refering to changing xover points and imaging.. and unless the driver had a huge peak or dip.. i dont think it would make that big of a difference unless a drastic change was made...

 

[cshaw 10+ year member]

directionality (is that a word?) shouldnt change much.. unless crossover points were changed drastically from the norm.. 3200 is a horrible spot (depending on driver placement) to cross in my opinion because thats basically one octive above when music gets really directional..

with his peerless exclusive 7 mid i dont think that beaming would be an issue. dont know what frequency a 7" driver would start to beam at or his current x/o point but i dont think its an issue due to the phase plug.

but what you just said ^^ sounds like you would like a 3 way set.

 

[Etac 10+ year member]

i wasnt refering to his setup..

but also if i had choose between a speaker to put up high between say

300hz - 3200 hz

or 3200-20000hz..

i'd pick 300-3200hz

but *most* cars dont have a good spot for a speaker big enough for that up high

 

[MBrock4u 10+ year member]

Interesting, so why all the buzz about going active? Food for thought.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Interesting, so why all the buzz about going active? Food for thought.

that's what I was trying to figure out...

Also, I would like to know the steps for getting nice imaging now that I'm active. I'd like to know how to get a center focus with or without time alignment.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Also, I would like to know the steps for getting nice imaging now that I'm active. I'd like to know how to get a center focus with or without time alignment.

Individual speaker t/a and level control, or every speaker exactly the same distance from you and on axis(or at least two speakers that play the same bandwidth need to be equally on/off axis from you) ...no other way around it without getting even more complicated.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Wat do you guys do for imaging after going active?

I put a little image of the band playing in the center of my windshield. As long as I set the printer quality to "high", I get high-resolution imaging that doesn't waver.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Individual speaker t/a and level control, or every speaker exactly the same distance from you and on axis(or at least two speakers that play the same bandwidth need to be equally on/off axis from you) ...no other way around it without getting even more complicated.

hmmm, I think that way would get the center image right in front of you. I'd rather have the center image in the middle of the windshield, though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif