Acoustic Elegance AV15

You should measure your transfer function using something that has been measured either outdoors or with the ground plane method as a reference to see exactly what is going on in your vehicle.
It just so happens that I have had a transfer function measured in the same style escort. Deon measured several cars when at Klipsch about 6-7 yrs ago now. Here is the transfer function. Red is with windows all down and yellow with windows all up.

escort_tf.gif


With windows up, by 70hz you have 3dB of gain. At 50hz there is about 18.5dB of gain. By 20hz there is 32dB of gain. This clearly is the reason for lack of upper frequency output in relation to the lower frequencies. In addition playing the front stage and overlapping the subwoofer gives issues with cancellation and you often get a null at the xover point until you either time align, adjust phase, or move position of the box.

I had gone through this a few times but I figure might as well post it once more. The following is a model of the AV15H adding in the actual transfer function. Blue is sealed model. Orange is vented. The green curve is the sealed box with the measured transfer function applied. The yellow is the vented box with transfer function applied.

AV15H_sealed_incar_vs_anechoic.png


Even with the sealed box there is still a large drop in response above 50hz due to the cabin gain. There is a bump centered just below 50hz, then a dip and another peak below 20hz. The vented box fills in the dip between the peaks. Response is +/-3dB from 15hz up to 50hz which is very flat. Also look at the scale there. With only 10W input the levels are up in the 120dB+ range.

Then there are two basic options if you are looking for an SQ system with flat response. One is to bring in the front stage at the point where the rolloff of the sub happens and adjust levels appropriately. You still need to keep the phase coherent between them or there will be a null at the xover point. If you need the sub to go higher, you can use a bandpass filter with about a 24dB slope on both ends to bring that level down. You'd then have the sub flat from 10hz to as high as you need it with huge amounts of headroom in reserve.

John

 
hmm, i can definitely hear the sub when i play Chop Suey...
and i'm crossed over at 78hz.

maybe it was your car?


My Orion does fine........ I'm going to blame the driver regardless of what anybody tells me. If multiple other drivers work fine and this one doens't, there isn't enough data in the world that can tell me it's my fault. It tells me this driver has faults. If there is multiple amounts of extra steps needed to make one driver equal to other 'inferior' drivers, why would one POSSIBLY think it's NOT the drivers fault??

 
My Orion does fine........ I'm going to blame the driver regardless of what anybody tells me. If multiple other drivers work fine and this one doens't, there isn't enough data in the world that can tell me it's my fault. It tells me this driver has faults. If there is multiple amounts of extra steps needed to make one driver equal to other 'inferior' drivers, why would one POSSIBLY think it's NOT the drivers fault??
Well the reason i feel this way is because I was unable to break the sub in an SPL setup which im sure is much more damaging to the sub then a smaller one, that is what leads me to believe there was another variable at fault.

 
John had considered building one at his shop while I was there building my box as well. Then we could throw it in my car and see how it performs to spec as well.
Might be worth it as the 13Hz diff in tuning could have a huge impact on how the driver reacts in the vehicle..

 
It just so happens that I have had a transfer function measured in the same style escort. Deon measured several cars when at Klipsch about 6-7 yrs ago now. Here is the transfer function. Red is with windows all down and yellow with windows all up.
escort_tf.gif


With windows up, by 70hz you have 3dB of gain. At 50hz there is about 18.5dB of gain. By 20hz there is 32dB of gain. This clearly is the reason for lack of upper frequency output in relation to the lower frequencies. In addition playing the front stage and overlapping the subwoofer gives issues with cancellation and you often get a null at the xover point until you either time align, adjust phase, or move position of the box.

I had gone through this a few times but I figure might as well post it once more. The following is a model of the AV15H adding in the actual transfer function. Blue is sealed model. Orange is vented. The green curve is the sealed box with the measured transfer function applied. The yellow is the vented box with transfer function applied.

AV15H_sealed_incar_vs_anechoic.png


Even with the sealed box there is still a large drop in response above 50hz due to the cabin gain. There is a bump centered just below 50hz, then a dip and another peak below 20hz. The vented box fills in the dip between the peaks. Response is +/-3dB from 15hz up to 50hz which is very flat. Also look at the scale there. With only 10W input the levels are up in the 120dB+ range.

Then there are two basic options if you are looking for an SQ system with flat response. One is to bring in the front stage at the point where the rolloff of the sub happens and adjust levels appropriately. You still need to keep the phase coherent between them or there will be a null at the xover point. If you need the sub to go higher, you can use a bandpass filter with about a 24dB slope on both ends to bring that level down. You'd then have the sub flat from 10hz to as high as you need it with huge amounts of headroom in reserve.

John
My apologies, I missed it the first time around that those measurements were for the same type of vehicle. Indeed there is relative mismatch between the higher and lower frequencies which, as you stated, could be wisely put to use as headroom. Well done.

 
My apologies, I missed it the first time around that those measurements were for the same type of vehicle. Indeed there is relative mismatch between the higher and lower frequencies which, as you stated, could be wisely put to use as headroom. Well done.
No apologies necessary. I'm not sure I was all that clear. I'm hoping to start measuring transfer functions from a bunch of vehicles and posting them to our site. They will be both in image form so you can see the curves and in data form so you can import to whatever software you're modeling with.

John

 
No apologies necessary. I'm not sure I was all that clear. I'm hoping to start measuring transfer functions from a bunch of vehicles and posting them to our site. They will be both in image form so you can see the curves and in data form so you can import to whatever software you're modeling with.
John
Excellent idea and an extremely useful feature to some. Can you be sure to include a 2005 Camry? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Also, my hat is off to you for the way you've maintained your composure under this scrutiny. Very admirable.

 
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