8" Compare Decision Help

[psy4s 10+ year member]

I am looking at a decision between 8" round speakers instead of 6.5" for the rear deck of my 1967 Camaro build. The three I have come to are the Rockford Fosgate 8" M282B Rated at 100 RMS 200 Max and the Soundstream Audio SST 8.2 Rated at 170 RMS and the JL Audio VR800-CW 125RMS

I am running a four channel amp with 125 watts per RMS.

Has anyone actually listened to these? Is there a good reason to choose one over the other?

I do like the sound of the silk tweeter, and I did get to listen to the Rockfords, but I have not been able to hear the soundstream speakers or the JL Audio's. I like that the Tweeter on the Rockfords are not punched through the Speaker cone, it is actually suspended above the cone as a component seperate. On the other hand I have been told not to run a tweeter in the rear, Hence the JL Audio ZR800-CW

Soundstream SST8.2 Tarantula Series 8" Full Range Speakers -3 Ohm - SoundstreamOnlineStore.com 814-201-2456

SoundStream SST8.2 8" 170W 2-Way Tarantula Series Car Audio Speakers

• Bi-Ampable Operation

• 1" Kapton Coil Former

• Zolon Coated Stamped Steel Basket

• Black Zirconium Cone

• 1" Swivel Silk Dome Tweeter

• Butyl Rubber Surround

• 3 ohm impedance

• Passive Crossovers Included

• CONEX Spider

• Power Handling: RMS - 170 Watts

• Frequency response: 4000-20000 Hz

• Efficiency: 90dB

Rockford Fosgate® - M282B

Rockford Fosgate M282B 8"

• 8" 2-Way Full-Range Rockford Fosgate M2 Series Marine Coaxial Speakers

• CEA-2031 Compliant

• Power Handling:

o Peak: 400 watts per pair / 200 watts each

o RMS: 200 watts per pair / 100 watts each

• Frequency Response 48Hz - 22kHz

• Injection molded mineral filled polypropylene cone

• UV and Salt-Fog resistant TPE (Thermo-Plastic Elastomer) surround

• 1" Bridge mounted component grade coated aluminum alloy tweeter

• Corrosion resistant gold plated polarized input terminals

• Moisture, tear and fatigue resistant aramid fiber spider

• 4 ohms impedance

• 1-1/4" Dual layer voice coil

• Linear, high excursion matched motor magnetics and suspension design

JL Audio ZR 800-CW

Free Air Resonance (Fs): 46.27 Hz

Electrical “Q” (Qes): 0.702

Mechanical “Q” (Qms): 11.667

Total Speaker “Q” (Qts): 0.662

Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 0.787 cu. ft. / 22.29 liters

One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 0.34 in. / 8.6 mm

Reference Efficiency (no):

Efficiency (1W/1m)**: 87.0 db SPL

Effective Piston Area (Sd): 33.34 sq. in. / 0.0215 sq. m

DC Resistance (Re): 3.935 ohm

Nominal Impedance (Znom): 4 ohm

Thermal Power Handling (Pt): 125W

Driver Displacement: 0.016 cu. ft. / 0.44 liters

Net Weight: 5.7 lbs. / 2.60 kg

Click to read more...

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

where are these going? you want your tweeters near ear height and aimed at or around the listeners. i can't imagine the location for your 8"s are an ideal location for the tweeters as well.

 

[smoothfidelity 10+ year member]

KHA - Please don't tell people they need to aim tweeters at or around people as a blanket statement. Every vehicle and driver is different. Only proper placement and extensive testing reveals where a tweeter should be located or aimed.

However, I do agree that most times having the ability to move a tweeter higher in the vehicle will raise stage height and better staging with proper placement.

OP - What are you trying to achieve by moving from a 6.5 to an 8 for your front stage? There are many factors that play into response, above and beyond the size of the driver. Almost always, the quality of the driver and proper install will play a larger role in achieving proper response than simply moving up to a larger driver.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Unfortunately it is true that many times raising the tweeters up to the pillars improves things, but it also adds a fundamental acoustical flaw in the form of point source differences. Ideally the mid and tweet will as close as possible, potentially even braxially mounted as shown in the OP. And of course, there's also the (popular) school of thought on pathlengths, and mounting his mid/tweet in the kicks, exactly the opposite of bringing them up to the pillars.

Pillar mounted tweets = (accurately) high sound stage, good stereo separation, large pathlength differences.

Kick mounted tweets = short pathlength differences, lower sound stage (dash affects this a lot), less separation.

If this was a driver's side only SQ setup, Id say pillars is fine. You can process out most of the problems, but only for one listening position. If you want the system to sound good for your passenger as well, Id tend to lean towards a kick panel setup. But of course other factors contribute, such as the vehicle itself, and even personal listening preference.

But thinking back to the OP, Ive strayed off topic, and I apologize.

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

Ok Let me change this up a bit, because I just purchased a set of Hertz Mille MLK 165 6.5 Convertibles for the front. What I am looking for is two 8” to go in the rear deck for strong rear fill. These are the two that I had been looking at, because the front Speaker Locations are really crappy in this car.

I just had my ear bent by a sound place because I had considered putting a speaker in the rear with a

Tweeter. He told me that I should consider the JL ZR800-CW instead. These are going to be rear fill I know, but I tested the speakers in my BMW to see what I really listen to, and I have my rears at about 60% of my fronts. Of course my BMW doesn’t have Hertz in the front either. I know it makes all the difference in the world, but the 8" speakers are going in the rear deck of my 1967 Camaro. It is isolated from the trunk, and the deck itself is reinforced with a solid piece of 5/8 MDF. I am looking for stronger bass. Not Sub Woofer Buzz but a good solid sharp hit. I can cut any size hole in the rear deck. It is currently solid on the deck and covered with Dampening Hushmat on top and Alpha Damp between the Metal and the MDF on the under side..

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

where are these going? you want your tweeters near ear height and aimed at or around the listeners. i can't imagine the location for your 8"s are an ideal location for the tweeters as well.

In the rear deck

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

where are these going? you want your tweeters near ear height and aimed at or around the listeners. i can't imagine the location for your 8"s are an ideal location for the tweeters as well.

This is why I have been told to use the JL Audio ZR800-cw speakers. No Tweeters in the rear.

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

This is what I am going to do in the front. It will be one of these kick panels,

or

I just have to make a decision about the rear

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Rear fill has a couple specific criteria. One, it is passband filtered, usually something like 500hz-5khz. Second, its attenuated, so as to not draw the sound stage towards the rear.

Rear fill is just that, something intended to fill that space behind the listeners that, due to interiors layout and seat locations, tends to be a void in the sound stage that the front speakers have trouble filling. Rear fill speakers are intended to emulate the fronts filling that space. This is why no tweeter is required (or wanted), you dont want the sound stage to sound like its coming from anywhere but in front of you.

Nice car btw. Id love to see more pics of it.

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

The dash really kicks back on this car, and really opens the area up for the Tweeters, yet I may still move them up to the top of the dash in the pillars. At the moment I am looking for them in the kicks, But I want to wait till I have the system installed, and then I can make a decision on Front tweeter location. I just have to make a decision on which rear speeker to use.

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

Rear fill has a couple specific criteria. One, it is passband filtered, usually something like 500hz-5khz. Second, its attenuated, so as to not draw the sound stage towards the rear.
Rear fill is just that, something intended to fill that space behind the listeners that, due to interiors layout and seat locations, tends to be a void in the sound stage that the front speakers have trouble filling. Rear fill speakers are intended to emulate the fronts filling that space. This is why no tweeter is required (or wanted), you dont want the sound stage to sound like its coming from anywhere but in front of you.

Nice car btw. Id love to see more pics of it.

Thank you

Here are some pictures of how the car came to this point of the build.

See I seem to do everything the hard way!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Very nice.

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

Very nice.

Very, very nice. I hope you make a build log and post plenty of pictures/videos. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

 

[psy4s 10+ year member]

I just purchased a new Infinity KAPPA Four to power my speakers. This is to replace my older Hifonics Amp. We will see if it makes a diference. Now I have to lay out the Trunk and build a place to keep the batteries, and show the Amp.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I use rear fill to help simulate the normal room reflections you get, that sort of "envelopment" that can help enhance a front stage. I like using a 4"-5.25" driver which is fairly flat in the range Audioholic mentions above. I prefer to have it sufficiently delayed to obtain an adequate Initial Time Delay Gap (ITDG).

KHA - Please don't tell people they need to aim tweeters at or around people as a blanket statement. Every vehicle and driver is different. Only proper placement and extensive testing reveals where a tweeter should be located or aimed.

agreed, but "at or around" is pretty darn general and the case in 90% of vehicles. you won't aim them at the floor. granted, i had mine off axis in the apillars which isn't "at or around" anyone. but i didn't like the specular reflections off the glass (front and side) to the opposite ear. the success of kick vs apillar has a lot to do with the crossover point between the two. get the crossover point above 4-5kHz and driver separation becomes less crucial, but the woofer location may not support that response if not on-axis. I have heard many kick tweeter systems that I have liked. I ran kick tweeters for many years. I've only moved to apillars in the past 4-5 years, and only for stage height.

OP - from your description it sounds like you want more midbass. the MLK 165 can provide plenty of midbass if properly enclosed. what is the airspace volume for your kick locations? is the airspace airtight relative to the cabin? you can add some 8's behind you for more midbass if you want, it can achieve your goal if the back airspace is airtight relative to the cabin. i wouldn't call it "rear fill" at that point. My local shop has some of those ZR800-CW BNIB for $140 each, they had 6 left. are you running these 8's in lieu of a sub?