Again, a battery or capacitor isn’t going to stop light dimming. The nominal alternator voltage should be around 14V (Typical voltage regulators are 14.2V +-.2V). Batteries voltages are around 12.8V without considering leakage or equivalent impedance. You can have a 3,000CCA battery installed, it’s not going to make any difference. Capacitors just don’t have the energy storage ability to stop large drops in VA.
Batteries are already a parallel element in the circuit, wiring an additional parallel element adds resistance, it doesn’t reduce it.
And I can’t imagine anyone driving around with an actual 500amp load, hell any daily driver would rarely have a load in excess of 150amps average, and any non-pro competitor would rarely have an average of over 250amps during competition. If someone has their stereo up to the point where they have a 200amp average load at idle, the cop a few blocks down is going to find them and write them a ticket….your example is not realistic. Any typical person can find an alternator to meet their load, and there is absolutely no reason to purchase a 2nd battery unless someone is spending a lot of time with their stereo turned off, or they exceed an extreme amount load.
I don't see anything I asked for, all I see is a bunch of names....which don't mean X battery is better than Y battery....these people are getting paid to use specific brands.
None of the above.
If you have voltage drops, then increase your wire ga, and match your alternator to your load.
huh? i ran 3 amps in my daily driver and was pulling over 350 amps for a good amount of time at a time.
had 2 PG x1200.1 (each 120 amps)
PG x200.4 anothe 120 amps.
and they will pull more when need be, plus add oll the other little processing gear.
all this off of the stock 85 amp alt, a redtop upfront and a kinetic HC1800 in the rear, voltage never hit below 12V.
again huh? have you ever been to a comp? the only way i can see this is some local highschool thing, other then that they pull over 250 amps
remember how meca changed the class rattings? why because of cheater amps sayin 100 watts putting out 1000watts. but you really cant do too much with how much current they pull.
a fuse will hold DOUBLE its rated power for a short time (about 30sec-1min maybe more)
so in comps if someone has 150 amp fuse t'll hold 300 amps for a decient period of time.
the exile X5 alone pulls over 500amps, look at some other big amps some of the hifonics pull over 300, and what about the crown amps, talk about current hogs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
again 90% of the competitors use several batteries for a reason...it works plain and simple. they use there HO alts for charging purposes for all those batteries.
250 amps of current draw is not that much for what people are running now a days.
With those amps, you were probably loading the system with around 1/3 of those numbers on average with your system turned up to be really loud.
And that explains your VOLTAGE DROP from your alternator’s 14.4V to your below your batteries nominal 12V. So this is reinforcing my point, match your alternator to your load, there’s no reason to experience a voltage drop by not properly upgrading your alternator. And your prematurely over cycling your batteries, not very smart.
LOL, fuses wouldn’t allow double the current for more than maybe a couple milliseconds.
But that’s beyond the point, when someone gets to the level of competing on the pro level they do use multiple batteries, because no HO alternator can support their load. Occasionally I have seen some people do it CORRECTLY (actually need multiple batteries) who isn’t competing pro. Regardless of your perception of system load, the typical daily driver doesn’t need multiple batteries for my above mentioned reasons.
WRONG!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif they are kinetik customers or were.
also a high outpult alt only does 50-60% power at around idle. not the system i have now but the last two i had dipped with a bass mechanic cd @ or going under 30mph off of 160 amp and 180 amp alts. system potential draws were 130 A and 175A. my tempo out of the bunch was the only one i put a second battery in and all my dimming went away when i did(yes already had a high output alt but it didnt stop dimming at a stop light lol) my firebird i ended up cutting away some unneeded plastic and went up another size in a better than factory wet cell. besides that a good battery wont up and die in a few seconds or minutes of playing at high volume unless you are trying to drive a 10kw system off of it. in the era of large class d's and super subs its WAY too easy to surpass the output of a high output alt for it to stand alone. nearly all amp companies make a 2kw amp and higher. in that reguard if you had 1 of those plus a 400 watt mids and highs amp you would at least need a 240 amp alt and something to back that up (another battery
: ). hell i even have a buddy in his daily driver with 2 4k mojos driving 2 15's on a stock alt. he has 3 2400's tucked behind his box +1 under the hood. hasnt had a problem yet in about a yr and a half.if all batteries were close to the same they would all fart about the same #'s and have about the same reserve. wet cell batteries lag well behind typically and have leakage issues vs agm. there were some special ultra low esr batteries at this years finals (2milohm and under with price tags of $1000 or higher).
The fact remains that a battery has a different potential than an alternator. Voltage drops don’t stop when you add another battery, you may lessen the extent of the drop BUT there is no reason to lessen the extent when you can eliminate it with an alternator which matches the load. This is regardless even @ 10x HC1800 batteries. Your statements of additional batteries stopping dimming are wrong; Anyone with any understanding of basic physics knows the same.WRONG!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif they are kinetik customers or were.also a high outpult alt only does 50-60% power at around idle. not the system i have now but the last two i had dipped with a bass mechanic cd @ or going under 30mph off of 160 amp and 180 amp alts. system potential draws were 130 A and 175A. my tempo out of the bunch was the only one i put a second battery in and all my dimming went away when i did(yes already had a high output alt but it didnt stop dimming at a stop light lol) my firebird i ended up cutting away some unneeded plastic and went up another size in a better than factory wet cell. besides that a good battery wont up and die in a few seconds or minutes of playing at high volume unless you are trying to drive a 10kw system off of it. in the era of large class d's and super subs its WAY too easy to surpass the output of a high output alt for it to stand alone. nearly all amp companies make a 2kw amp and higher. in that reguard if you had 1 of those plus a 400 watt mids and highs amp you would at least need a 240 amp alt and something to back that up (another battery
if all batteries were close to the same they would all fart about the same #'s and have about the same reserve. wet cell batteries lag well behind typically and have leakage issues vs agm. there were some special ultra low esr batteries at this years finals (2milohm and under with price tags of $1000 or higher).
90% of any driver on the road with an OEM system can match their alternator with the load, you’re an idiot if you drive around actually running your system @ 2,500 watts (I’m not talking about installing a 2,500watt RMS system, I’m talking about actually running 2,500 watts average or approx a 200amp load)…..I hope who ever does that gets a boat load of tickets. Those people are the reason the government is possibly going to be banning high powered amplifiers from being produced, and are ruining installing high powered systems in cars for competition.
Hell, someone ACTUALLY LOADING 1,000 watts while driving will very uncomfortable to sit in and will let people a block down the road audibly hear you.
In regards to batteries, you seem to be twisting my points. I never said low ESR batteries aren’t inherently better than higher ESR batteries, I said Kinetic batteries have no data surrounding their “low ESR” numbers….and I fail to see anything backing this up./ Batteries have an ESR range as they discharge, I would never spend 1000$ on batteries, and just because someone else does doesn’t mean it’s better in any physical way than a battery costing 200$. Unless you have some test data comparing X vs Y you have no argument besides people saying that people use them who are sponsored to use them and followers who look at someone competing using them and decide to follow suit. Leakage values and ESR values probably vary by a fraction of a percentage when comparing two well built batteries. And anyone knows that numbers vary every time someone is metered, battery types have relatively nothing to do with this.
may not stop a voltage drop but definately controls how far it will drop. which stops the amps from blowing.
you have a big misconception of what a kinetik sponsorship is..they dont get paid and they dont get "free product".
just takes a basic understanding of pre physics (was taught to me somewhere within the first six weeks of basic circuit analysis full yr before we were required to take physics) to figure your question out. in systems i see dont get a noticeable dimming until it drops past 11.5-12.5v (same way as lights dont get "brighter" until you get past 14.5v or slightly higher as if had a voltage regulator go out and the higher the rpm went the higher the voltage got somewhere at about 16v i would say i thought my brights were on untill i slowed down lol..)
you are also wrong in your statement about your numbers with the meter. if they vary greatly within the same system then you are sandbagging or something is broke or simply lost . i will also stand behind what i say/said about the numbers can and do vary between "brands". single cell wet lead acid vs higher tech batteries and high end battery vs high end battery can yeild more than 1 db and in groups over 3 db. in competition when you can get beat by .1 of a db it matters. i dont see where you have an argument as it is well known knowledge to competitors. most really serious competitors keep a log book and depending on the round they are in dial the system up to do as low of a score needed to win thus saving their equipment for a later tougher round. generally speaking they are either right on or within a .1 db (if its on the low side of that my money is on they will be hooking it up to a charger)
the problem i think you have with kinetik is how they recommend their cells as they do it differently than batteries hitting more on the automotive side. kinetik rates for day in day out stereo power for the simple reason people look at cca and cranking amps and think thats the only thing that matters when selecting another battery. sure a small 14 lb agm cell can do 600-900 amps but it doesnt mean it will last in a system that does 2000 watts.if your system depends on it solely as its back up power source eventually it will break down(melt down). kinetik also shows aH (c/20) on their cells as they feel for a cell used day in and out its an important factor which it is. sure kinetik does well in competition but when it first started it didnt lean that way it was brought out because people were putting 1000+ watt class d's in stock electrical system cars and people were blowing up amps due to not haveing enough power....... if i didnt go into enough detail i apoligize as i dont work there anymore my recollection of "exact specs" can be off if by nothing else memory / or product improvement since the time i left.
If you go by what kinetik recomends for your needs and you know what you are doing to some degree im over 99% sure you would get many years of dependable use. (as failure rate in comp cars and regular customers is under 1% )
As for the person asking about what second battery he should get. i think if you read both sides of the argument that along with your listening habits i would get a high output alt with as good of front battery as you can fit or simply add another large enough cell in back. if you are more times than not listening to your system at extreme levels it gives your electrical system the best chance to keep voltage at a reasonable level so you are not blowing up stuff after 2-3 months worth of use.
bballrrt06
10+ year member
IT GOES TO ELEVVVVEN
http://www.cardomain.com/item/LITLSMAX100
rated at 200% duty for 5 seconds
and the definition of "typical daily driver" around here isn't how you're probably defining it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif
You’re not paying attention to your lights then, because people can see dimming with under a 2 volt drop for a fraction of a second. It makes sense with a 60watt bulb @ 14.4V dropping to 13V. Humans can very easily see an event around 20hz, and the 1.4V drop probably is a little over a 200 lumen difference. Very noticeable.
Also, the voltage drop of something like a 1.4Vdrop would result in a discernable output form the amplifiers, simply taking a VAin to VAout ratio & the drop in efficiency. I don’t see the need to do the math.
The only way an amp is going to get damaged, is if the VAin is greater than the amplifier is fused or CB is printed (ie. Including internal components) to handle. Possibly if the output is very clipped, the output stage may become damaged over a lot of use, but that’s not common. The amplifier isn’t going to get damaged from under powering it.
And again I never disagreed that a low ESR battery isn’t better than a higher one, but you have absolutely no data backing up your claims. CCA and AH are numbers which, again vary drop potential drop per temperature, just as ESR does. I hear all of this talk about ultra low specs and decibels of difference (which relative to a 2,000watt system means the batteries can output 50amps more each per low potential drop…give me a break). This is reality, even if the difference is .1ohm, there wouldn’t be near as much of a difference in current discharge….and like I said circuit resistance governs discharge rate not battery equivalent resistance. Your comments are beyond anything logical pertaining to storage devices.
Possibly one point I do agree with is dependability, if it has a long warranty then that’s one plus.
That's typical.
That's probably 25% of the I^2*t clearing point. Melting point is lower. Like I said, the fuse won't hold 200% of the rated current for more than a couple ms, the element heats up resistance increases logarithmically, current decreases, the element begins melting, the element clears.
I have no idea what the average daily driver has in here, but I can't imagine they can sit in a car which is actually outputting 2,000watts average. It's not something I'm going to debate, my point is that someone should match their load to their alternator, and only if they can't should they start installing multiple batteries.
an amp wont blow if the voltage drops too low? lol they get hot and burn up magic puffs of smoke. plus the voltage drops you are talking about in a system are maybe .2 db at best in performance on average probably .1 on average. there are alot of amps that sell and get used that would take a monster of an alt to match with and we arent even talking about what the car needs. not very many people get amps this big to listen to music in a traditional sense either at some point i bet they throw in shine sweeps and specific hertz tones to some heavy bass music just to see what it will do. there are tons of subs out there that can take over 1000 watts to push. re xxx ,adire brahma, l7's solox's, i see w7's with over 1000 watts each on them plus alot more subs than that. again we arent talking even about the rest of the system or again what even the car needs.hell i can think of 3 cars in my little speed bump of a town that qualify for what im talking about. a good 240 amp + alt and getting it installed right isnt an inexpensive thing to do. when i talked to OG they said the 240 amp alt i have is good for a system from 2500-3000 watts WITH a second battery.
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