2 12" type R's or one 12" type X?

[Super Pickle 10+ year member]

thinking of getting rid of the kickers, i just really dont like them and someone offered me good money for them, and i have heard good things about the type Rs, and i know that the x's are better. my problem is i really only have money for one type X, and im wondering what i should get...i would also need an amp if anyone knows a good one to use for either setup.

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[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

The R and X are two totally different drivers. The R's are louder than X's, but do not have the sound quality of the X. If you want loud music, get the R's; if you want accurate and clean music, get the X.

 

[bdavies11 10+ year member]

thinking of getting rid of the kickers, i just really dont like them and someone offered me good money for them, and i have heard good things about the type Rs, and i know that the x's are better. my problem is i really only have money for one type X, and im wondering what i should get...i would also need an amp if anyone knows a good one to use for either setup.

I know your thinking the Type-X is a better all around woofer than the Type-R because it looks beefier, is more expensive, and can handle more power than a Type-R but you are comparing apples to oranges here. As Lakota said they are 2 totally different woofers, designed for different purposes.

If are looking for something loud, then the type-r's may be what your looking for.

However, if you want a sub that is geared more for sound quality and unbelievable low end extension, then the type-x is probably one of the sickest subs on the market for that.

It all depends on what you want out of your system.

 

[Lightninghoof 10+ year member]

I typed this up last night in a different Type-X thread. Copy and paste:

The Type-X is a rather unique subwoofer design that is optimized for a very specific purpose and application. If you understand the design and what it excels at (and consequently what it lacks), it's performance, in-car frequency response, and output capability makes a lot more sense.

It's a great niche subwoofer for those who recognize what it can and cannot do, and implement accordingly. Unfortunately most people purchase or audition the Type-X with the preconceived notion that it is a performance upgrade of the Type-R subwoofer. This is partially the fault of Alpine marketing department, and partially because it is significantly more expensive than the Type-R. (and partially because people do not know how to analyze and utilize T/S parameters). At any rate, this is incorrect.

So what is the Type-X optimized for? It's a high Qts/Qes driver design (weak motor), high Mms/Mmd (very heavy moving mass), moderate Fs, low EBP, low SPL sensitivity. This all points to a driver that is optimized for sealed box use. Enclosure size requirements are moderate. (Not outrageous, but not exactly small for a 12" driver). Anechoic F3 in a medium sized sealed enclosure is extremely low, lowest I have ever seen in a 12" driver, especially for car audio use.

Remember, Hoffman's Iron Law dictates that a loudspeaker can possess (or rather, be optimized for or excel at) any two of the following three properties, but at the expense of the third property:

1) Small box requirement

2) SPL efficiency

3) low-end sensitivity and extension

For example, if a driver was designed to work in a small enclosure and have relatively high SPL efficiency per watt of input power, low-end sensitivity and extension would be greatly reduced or compromised as a result.

Back to the Type-X. The driver clearly has low SPL efficiency. It's basically 83dB for the 2007 12" model. It doesn't exactly have small box requirements either, however it is still rather small for this type of driver design.

So far we have deduced that the driver has extremely poor SPL efficiency, and good/fair small box requirement. That only leaves.... {drumroll please}.....

Yup, you guessed it, low-end sensitivity and extension. And that, my friends, is what this driver excels at. It has EXTREME low-end sensitivity and extension in only a moderate sized sealed enclosure. Couple that with in-car transfer function (cabin gain) and you have one of the sickest low bass capable 12" subwoofers to ever grace the car audio market.

It adds up on paper, and it adds up in my trunk. (I bought two of them )

But as I mentioned before, it's an unorthodox design that has only a niche appeal IMO. I feel that most people prefer a driver that will work equally well in sealed and ported boxes, and most people prefer a driver that has a higher SPL efficiency and smaller box requirements, at the expense of low-end extension and sensitivity. This is actually the general category that most car audio subwoofers fit into. Quite the opposite of the Type-X.

Another thing I want to mention is that for the most part a driver that is extremely low-end sensitive like the Type-X usually lacks on the top-end without an extremely versatile EQ and significant tuning. Such a driver design will probably require an unusually robust midbass setup to compensate, and/or an unusually advanced and capable outboard processor. Most people do not possess this.

That makes this one of the more difficult subwoofers to work with and implement and tune properly. Definitely not for the average user who just wants to drop it in and go, or just wants some loud bass in the trunk.

The Type-X is supposedly a lower distortion driver than the Type-R, but to my knowledge Alpine hasn't released the technical data to confirm this. I would like to think that it is given the price difference, but I cannot verify. It's definitely well built and well designed, and offers plenty of mechanical and thermal power handling. (which is always relative, I know. this isn't a "super woofer")

I hope this helps to clear up some (common) misconceptions regarding the Type-X subwoofer.

 

[PSturmer 10+ year member]

thats great^^^^^ but it bores me to much to read.

R's have plenty of sq. i'd take the R's just because it will be louder. when people sit in your car they dont say "wow that bass is really good quality". bass is bass

 

[Lightninghoof 10+ year member]

haha, short attention span //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

thats great^^^^^ but it bores me to much to read.

R's have plenty of sq. i'd take the R's just because it will be louder. when people sit in your car they dont say "wow that bass is really good quality". bass is bass

R's and sq, haha.

 

[Orio5 10+ year member]

when people sit in your car they dont say "wow that bass is really good quality". bass is bass

x2....................//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[PSturmer 10+ year member]

R's and sq, haha.

a 2.75 @ 33hz box for a R is all the sq you'll ever need.

 

[cotjones V2]

actually the normal listener would prefer the sq, rather than just sit in your car and have their skull rattle and not even be able to hear the music, why? because most people don't have subs

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

a 2.75 @ 33hz box for a R is all the sq you'll ever need.

no, no it's not

 

[Super Pickle 10+ year member]

hm... well i listen to tons of kinda of music, from the offspring, bob marley, some pretty hard rap, jack johnson, alot of everything...so im still torn here....cause if you understand where im coming from i want a woofer that wont be rumbling and sounding like crap when listening to rock music but something that hits pretty hard when listening to rap lol....but right now im leaning towards the R's, and thanks for everyones help

 

[tigerf117 10+ year member]

I personally don't give what people think if my system, as long as I think it sounds great. SQ>SPL for sure for me

 

[Da64u 10+ year member]

2 12 inch type-r's 12 is best for both rock and rap.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

R's have plenty of sq. i'd take the R's just because it will be louder. when people sit in your car they dont say "wow that bass is really good quality". bass is bass

That is the most uninformed and stupid thing I've ever heard.