1999 Camry Rainbow Germanium/JL 12W6 Thread! (Picture heavy! 56k beware.)

[headless 10+ year member]

Hey all. I'm posting this thread up to show the install and note my impressions as i make changes to my new system... figure someone will find this stuff interesting //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Plz be gentle. I'm a newb. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

System Set-up is on my sig -- but in case i change the sig:

1999 Camry

Eclipse CD8454 HU

RioCar in-dash MP3 player (Currently 20gb but expandable to a respectable 200gb)

Rainbow Germanium CS265 components on...

Eclipse EA3422 @ 2ch, 2x140w RMS. I tried @ 4x50w also. more details on that later..

JL 12W6 v1 on...

Punch 60 DSM. Soon to be a Punch 100 DSM, as the rainbows are just too loud for it at high volumes with the 60.

I decided on the Germaniums after some research. I had been looking MBQuart's QSD line for a long time, but when it came down to ordering speakers i was steered more towards Focal polykevlars (cheaper too)... but upon my researching journey i ran across Rainbow mentioned all over, and decided to go for those as a local friend of mine has them in his car (all around, including 10" subs) and raves about them, and i found nothing but positive reviews on the net.

So i got in touch with 3.5max and after learning the profi kickbass's would be almost 600$ (just outside of my pricerange) he suggested the Germaniums (under 500$ so directly comparable to prices on the MBQuart QSD series i had been eyeing). The Germaniums were released last year over in Germany, apparently, but haven't really made their way here in mass numbers. I think i'm one of the first few people stateside to get them. More on those after the first batch of...

PICTURES!

(i know, that's all you wanted anyway //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif)

Click to read more...

 

[headless 10+ year member]

I came home from work and discovered...new speakers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I was so excited, i popped open the box immediately. Woot. Hot chicks. Oh, i mean. Product lists. Yay!

The box was well packed..but in my haste i missed this bit of damage. My heart skipped a beat!

Could the germaniums be damaged?!?! LET IT NOT BE SO!

I opened the box with baited breath to discover.. the grills popped off of the rings, and were dented slightly. That's it. Phew. I'm not even going to be using the grilles. (did i do something stupid by not? lol)

So, here they are with grills, as arrived + packaged.

Here's a closeup shot of the crossover -- i'll get another one of it popped open and upclose //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif These crossovers ROCK. Bi-Wire and Bi-Amping inputs, and a multitude of programmable options. Crossover is adjustable from 2.2khz to 2.6khz -- 4 levels of tweeter attentuation. Good stuff.

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Next up - INSTALL THEM! Now here i had to make a decision. I just bought my CD8454 and the germaniums, which were just under 500$...so i was tapped for cash. I want to deaden my doors but i didn't have the cash. So i decided to make it a learning experience -- first installing without any deadening, then with, so i could do a before and after comparison. Don't hate me plz.

Left door..

All set!

I was able to put the tweets into the stock mounting locations with some double sided tape. W00t for undercover system. Plz don't jack my shit kthx.

Next we had to run the wire for the right hand door. Why no pics of running the left hand door? We were pissed off at it too much to bother. There's a crapton of wires going into the driver side door through that little *** gromit, and it was a pain in the *** to fit 4 14ga through. In hindsight, some lube woulda been nice.

Here's the right speaker all ready to go!

Now the trunk. Here's a shot of the Optima D34 yellowtop. We ran 4GA from the front battery to it (no isolator) and ran the 4ga ground to a bolt in the floorpan (drivers side seat post). It was trivial then to run 4ga from the extra posts on the D34 to the distribution blocks

Here's the full trunk. We made the board out from some 3/4" pine, carpetted it with random lowes carpet. Wee! We drilled holes with a spade bit to run the wires through, and bought 'computer desk gromits' to line the holes. This kept the carpet from unravelling where we cut it for the holes because we didn't trim any, just shoved the gromit in so it pushed the carpet in. It also looks alot cleaner than some holes with fluffy carpet fuzz //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Here's a closeup of the highs amp and the right crossover... I mounted the X-OVERS in the trunk so i could adjust them without popping open the doors. With 4 levels of tweet attentuation i figured i'd probably need to adjust at least once...and i have. Next thing on my list is to try adjusting the x-over points on them and see how it changes the sound. The manual describes adjusting the x-over point on the passenger side to compensate for high midrange sound being louder on the left side of the car. eh? OK.

Now the dash. Yes. The dash has no trim plate on it. I'm making a new one from scratch to accomodate my ****ed up extra-large mp3 player. You'll see why shortly. That's the empeg (mp3 player) right under the CD8454

The empeg is pretty awesome. Little linux box that plays mp3s. Has an ethernet port w/ webserver built in. Can accomodate 2 laptop hardrives bringing its current max capacity to 200gb...on the fly playlist modification, reorganization, search capabilities, remote control, even supports a radio tuner module....has all kinds of cool little visualizations. Here's one.

So, the thing undocks from the car so you can take it inside and upload mp3s to it. This is why i need a new trim for the dash -- the ****er is about 4mm too wide on both sides. It's got a big handle that you use to pull it out of the dash -- like so

Leaving this nice bigass hole in the dash

Now when i take it inside, i can use it as an ethernet mp3 fileserver (it can stream via http to multiple people at once) and plug the RCA ports into my home stereo to have it output into that...and it's got remote so i can control my mp3s inside via remote -- or via web server //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif Yep, you can log in and tell it to play, stop, next track, search for tracks, load playlists, etc. over the network too. Rear shot -- yep, USB, ethernet, serial, rca's..and it's even got an aftermarket mod scene...i could get optical output added //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Note the large docking plug is what the metal tray in the dash actually connects to, which makes the connections for rca outputs etc. -- that's wired into my wiring harness w/ the 8454..and is inputting to the 8454 through the aux-in. I would like to eventually use the optical in on the 8454.

 

[937DYTBOI 5,000+ posts]

sweet, decent setup, i have that same punch floating around my house somewhere. So those rainbows were looking good, how do they sound. How much and where did you order them?

 

[headless 10+ year member]

So we got the rainbows installed and went for a ride. I had had the chance to ride around with my rear speakers cut off for a couple of days so i could hear my stock camry shittola speakers without the rear fill messing with the sound stage. Just that taste converted me from the rear fill camp to the front soundstage camp. The first ride out with the Rainbows was amazing. The tweets are by far the clearest sounding tweets i have ever heard. Brand new they were pretty harsh, but i was digging on actually HEARING things so wasn't bothered. As they have worn in a bit, they have mellowed out considerably. When they were still wearing in, i had them attentuated manually on the amp via the gain. Once they wore in and were sounding nice and soft, i decided to try out the crossover attenuation. The tweet attenuation setting i used is described as having a slow slope from 4khz on -- it actually lowers the highest highs slightly so the tweets don't sound as harsh. The stock mode is no attenuation and is designed for mounting in kickpanels. They are **** loud like that. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif. Levelling out the gain and using the crossovers resulted in a much smoother, fuller sound from the system, so i am happy with this for now.

At first i ran 4x50w on these speakers, and they got quite loud. At low volumes, my 12w6 would overpower them unless i turned it down a little, but when i'd hit the higher end (40w-50w) they balanced out nicely with the sub. Then, i discovered time alignment. I had never heard time alignment in action except for making my home computer 5.1 align rear speakers to front, so really didn't know what to expect. After doing the math and setting up time alignment on my deck, i was amazed at the difference in the sound. Instead of sounding like it was coming from 2 speakers, the sound felt like it was coalescing in front of me and coming from a spot in front of the dash. I had a bit of a problem with it wandering slightly left to right as it came from high highs to mid-range sound, though -- which, amusingly, dissapeared when i switched my crossover attenuation for my tweets on. It made a world of difference in the clarity of the sound. Turning it off made it sound like the car was echoing or something. Woot for technology. On the down side, i found that i wanted the system to be even louder once the TA was set up. i was running my amp on the edge of clipping to get the volume to counter that 12" on the punch 60.

I wanted it to be louder, but i could hear the amp start to clip if i tried any more than a certain level, and i wanted to eliminate that possibility. DOH... so! I decided to try changing up to 2x140w instead. I set my time alignment on the woofers and tweets to the same -- before i had them all separately delayed precisely according to the CD8454's manual. This actually helped in my soundstaging i think -- it pulled the sound up to dash-height whereas before, the sound appeared to come from a level between the tweets and woofers. I kept left/right TA which kept the voices coming from right in front of me. Happy camper.

Re-wired them tonight and have been listening to them on this new configuration. ****. These ****ers get insanely loud. And are clear the whole way. I've got them crossed over @ 63hz/12db and can't hear any distortion from the woofer at any volume.. i have to get out of the car and stand back a few feet to keep it from hurting my ears though, to test. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif They actually sound OK at low volumes without any high pass at all, but once you give them any power you're gonna want the xover //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Overall i'm very happy with this setup -- the only problem now is that my 12w6 is getting drowned by the fronts. Time for the Punch 100.

Next up -- Deadening my doors and trunk. I'm also going to go for a high output alternator, as i do get some dimming especially when under 2000rpm's.

 

[headless 10+ year member]

sweet, decent setup, i have that same punch floating around my house somewhere. So those rainbows were looking good, how do they sound. How much and where did you order them?

You beat me to my impressions post -- see above //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I got them from 3.5max6speed on the forums here for just under 500$ shipped. I love these things. I will say, however, that my opinion is a fairly uneducated one as far as car audio goes. The only REAL 6.5 components i can compare them to are my brother's set of Boston Accoustics Rally series. I find the tweets on the rainbows to be much nicer to the ear (the boston's struck me as harsh) but just as detailed. The woofers drop way low which i didn't notice with my brothers boston's.

My friend (whom helped me with the install) however is fairly into car audio - has done SQ comps in the past but is a big SPL freak lately -- loudest + second loudest (160db+) car in tallahassee depending on which day you go to the comp... and he was extremely impressed. His opinion on deadening my doors when i first mentioned these speakers was -- nah. Don't bother. You'll be OK without them... However, upon hearing these speakers he was extremely impressed at the fullness of the sound. He says "Uh..i wasn't expecting them to do THIS. Deaden these doors man!!" Pretty funny.

 

[937DYTBOI 5,000+ posts]

yea i want to get some components im running coaxials right now with a pair of tweets, i need some deading to i know it will sound a lot better, im also considering getting pods made for my future 6.5's to help keep the sound in.

 

[6spdcoupe 5,000+ posts]

Excellent writeup, detailed and to the point in every aspect.

Once the dampning is in youll love em even more.

For the record, your the 3rd stateside to have em in. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Alpine CDA-9815 10+ year member]

MmMmMmMmMm Rainbows //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Excellent writeup, detailed and to the point in every aspect.
Once the dampning is in youll love em even more.

For the record, your the 3rd stateside to have em in. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Thanks //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'll be ordering the dampening stuff next paycheck. Or maybe the one after that. As of the last bump to wattage, they are now loud enough that i can't hear the rattling anymore. Does that mean it's not there? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif LOL.

 

[LeX 10+ year member]

Excellent writeup, detailed and to the point in every aspect.
Once the dampning is in youll love em even more.

For the record, your the 3rd stateside to have em in. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

While you were sleeping I got 3 sets put in my maxima. 3 woofers 3 tweets each front door //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[Raisedin305 5,000+ posts]

How does that battery perform with no isolator? Any problems?

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

Nice write up man. But I got a feeling Part TWO will be coming once you strengthen those doors...You may never hear your W6 behind you again the same with the up front midbass impact

And yes the crossover flexibility on those are insane! Untouched anywhere near to double the price range.

Copper sleve in the motor of the mid, chamber on the tweet...its a nice package.

 

[headless 10+ year member]

How does that battery perform with no isolator? Any problems?

I've had no problems at all. It really doesn't make alot of sense to have it there in most cases, but i wanted it to give me a bit of breathing room on having the system running while my car is idling or off. I WOULD have a problem if i left the system on @ high volumes overnight (no isolator = drain both batteries) but as of yet, no problems.

I get some dimming at the highest volumes, and am planning on a HO alternator to eliminate the issue entirely. While it wasn't necessary to grab the yellowtop, i fly electric R/C planes so it was nice to have some open terminals for all my 12v gear in my trunk. Multiple benefits! AC inverter runs off of it too, without having to have my hood open.