10" shallow mount vs. 8" standard sub

[GoBucks! 10+ year member]

I want to add a sub in extended cab of my 2000 Chevy S10. The box needs to be small with about .4 to .5 ft^3 sealed (max) and mounting depth of 4.5" (max). I have an older Crossfire VR302, I believe about 300 watts 4 ohm mono. I am looking for SQ first, but still want it to be loud.

I have been researching a budget sub (under $100) and I am going crazy with the options. My biggest issue is whether to get a shallow mount 10" sub or a standard 8" sub?

Please help with the insanity: 8" standard or 10" shallow mount? And recommendations to go along with your opinion is greatly appreciated.

Thank ya.

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[zako 10+ year member]

If money was no objective, my number one pick would have been Alpine Type-R Thin. Alpine's engineer on made a claim on forums that these are their top SQ subs right now (better than regular Type-Rs). They're pretty expensive though. Sonicelectronix lists the Alpine SWR-T10 for $300. My second pick would have been Peerless 835028 10" XLS Shallow Subwoofer. Peerless XXLS/XLS are known for their SQ. For something that's closer to your budget, I'd look at Kenwood eXcelon subs. The problem with a lot of standard 8 inch subs (some of the good ones at least) is that they still won't clear the depth you need.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

yea if you go shallow mount go with the alpine its pricey but its worth it.

the standard 8 more than likely isnt going to give you what you want

though i question what kind of car this is going in because the small box requirement you have is going to limit your lower frequency extension which means hitting that lowest note on "i put on" with any kind of authority will be next to impossible but regular 38-80 hz bass will be alot louder

 

[GoBucks! 10+ year member]

zako: Dont have the budget for the Alpine. I was looking at the JBL GTO804 which would clear the mounting depth requirements by an 1/8". I could cut out the box and add in a 1/4" steel plate to the back and gain 3/4" clearance from the thickness of the MDF.

Not sure how the JBL GTO804 ranks vs. a large 10" shallow mount in my budget range?

winkychevelle: The box will be in the extended cab of my 2000 S10. The reason for building a small box is to maintain the use of the extended cab for my kids and/ or golf clubs.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

If it was possible to fit the Alpine SWR 843D or SWR-823, I'd take that route. It seems like it is the benchmark 8-inch SQ duty subwoofer right now. The 10 inch shallow mount Kenwood subs have only 7.5 mm xmax while the JBL sub has 14mm of linear xmax. It's a toss up between these two. Both will move a comparable amount of air before they run out of their linear xmax, but the JBL subwoofer will probably need more power to do this. Both have mostly positive reviews.

 

[GoBucks! 10+ year member]

Alpine SWR 823D option: Looks like the Alpine SWR 823D requires 4.5" mounting depth. So this woofer should be an option.

Question 1) So the Alpine 823D will outplay (SQ and loudness) either of the 10" shallow mount JBL or Kenwood mentioned?

Question 2) If I purchase a budget amp to run a new woofer, now opening the possibility for a 2 ohm mono woofer, like the MB Quart RLP 254. Is the MB Quart better than either the JBL or Kenwood shallow mounts?

Question 3) Alpine 823D vs. MB Quart RLP 254?

Side note: I was considering the Alpine MRP-M500 amp, Hifonics HFI 1000d amp, or the MB Quart Onyx 1.1000d. Any thoughts on these amps would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

I wouldn't buy anything Kenwood other than their head-units...

If it fits, I'd look into a Skar IVX 10, Sundown SD 10, or E8.... good excursion on all those.

Might wanna ask around with other S10 owners on here and see if there's any ways you can squeeze out some more room.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

If it fits, go with 8' inch type-rs. Check the >20 page SWR-843 on the DIYMA forum for the box specs, etc. They're very capable subs with very good SQ. The motor is supposedly over-engineered for an 8 inch subwoofer. That's why they're so popular. Specially if you can build a vented box, supposedly they sound excellent. Of course, you could go with a different brand, if you prefer the less traveled path. I am not a fan of Maxxsonics products (MB Quart, Hifonics), so I would take the Alpine amplifier, or for that matter a Kenwood, PPI, or other comparable amplifiers, even though MB Quart and Hifonics are usually a few bucks cheaper.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I wouldn't buy anything Kenwood other than their head-units...

That'd be a mistake. I'd say their line of Class D amplifiers (the XR- line), full range and mono-blocks, are really nice. I'd put them on the same level or better than Alpine PDX. They also just came up with a staggered 2x60watt + 2x100watt RMS amplifier with "only" 2x40amp fuses. It would be interesting to see the real rating of that amp..

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

If it was possible to fit the Alpine SWR 843D or SWR-823, I'd take that route. It seems like it is the benchmark 8-inch SQ duty subwoofer right now. The 10 inch shallow mount Kenwood subs have only 7.5 mm xmax while the JBL sub has 14mm of linear xmax. It's a toss up between these two. Both will move a comparable amount of air before they run out of their linear xmax, but the JBL subwoofer will probably need more power to do this. Both have mostly positive reviews.

May be their best SQ sub, but definitely not on par with the likes of TC Sounds, Image Dynamics, Morel, etc.

I wouldnt touch Kenwood either. They make 2 good products. High end average consumer headunits and their highest end amps. Their amps are iffy though because chances are you can find a better amp for less money. Id take an Aura RPM amp on Parts Express before Id use a Kenwood.

 

[akheathen Premium Member]

yea if you go shallow mount go with the alpine its pricey but its worth it.
the standard 8 more than likely isnt going to give you what you want

though i question what kind of car this is going in because the small box requirement you have is going to limit your lower frequency extension which means hitting that lowest note on "i put on" with any kind of authority will be next to impossible but regular 38-80 hz bass will be alot louder

don't suppose you know where i can get that song without the low note attuned from the resto of the song. it always pisses me off that it's recorded quieter.

what's wrong with the mbquart? looks decent. i can also attest to the sound quality and decent output of the jl 10w0v2, and imagine the similar jl subs to be as efficient.

 

[GoBucks! 10+ year member]

So to recap, looks like a convential 8" sub would "out play" and shallow mount 10"? What if worse case I cannot get the mounting depth needed for either an Alpine 8" or Sundown 8", which shallow 10's are above the curve for SQ and loudness staying in the $100 max range?

 

[Full Tilt 10+ year member]

A well-constructed 'regular' subwoofer isn't going to have a depth mount of

 

[zako 10+ year member]

May be their best SQ sub, but definitely not on par with the likes of TC Sounds, Image Dynamics, Morel, etc.
I wouldnt touch Kenwood either. They make 2 good products. High end average consumer headunits and their highest end amps. Their amps are iffy though because chances are you can find a better amp for less money. Id take an Aura RPM amp on Parts Express before Id use a Kenwood.

Well, I have seen a review and test of Kenwood XR-4S that shows that it provides the rated power, low noise, good channel separation, etc. It's not as cheap as PPI P900.4, the current value leader of Class D amplifiers, but for the same price I'd take Kenwood. I assume that, by translation, other amplifiers in the Kenwood XR family are pretty good. The big 2-channel Aura RPM2300 amplifier for $100 was a fine deal. Pretty much anything would look overpriced compared to it. (Other Aura RPM amps from PE were not so impressive, except for their low price) That's not a fair comparison though, as the Aura 2300 was a one-time deal. They're sold out by now. And let's admit, most people bought them for the power and price. This amplifier has its flaws. Some people noted increased noise and turn on pop in full-range application. This amplifier is big and power hungry, as expected from a powerful Class A/B amplifier. Yet, the power terminals only take 8 gauge wire.. I would personally prefer something like PPI P600.2 to Aura2300, even though PPI may cost $160-170..

 

[Ndalik]

I apologize for bump the old topic...

I happen to have a Rainbow Vanadium 8" in a box - supposed to quite an impressive driver and modelled in WINISD its response walks all over the slim subs. The Aplineis  https://atfulldrive.com/best-car-subwooferwhere my hopes were initially pinned with the surface area and xMax as you note - but modelling the figures at least it is quite unimpressive in terms of bass extension / F3 and SPL (on paper the smaller Vanadium significantly outperforms the Alpine shallow 10" in extension and SPL - from what I have read it's SQ is good too).

This is what posed me to post, as everything I had to go on was calculated and what everyone's really interested in is how things actually sound  So I thought I'd canvass opinion to see if I was barking up the wrong tree, or is the calculations were likely to be a true representation of the difference sound wise...

To add complication to my specific predicament though the drawback with the Vanadium is it is dual 4 ohm VC. I have no amp specs as it is fibre MOST input / OE and they won't release (or the people I've spoken to don't understand) the info. The current OE driver is 10", single VC and measures 3.1 ohm at rest, so I have no idea if the amp could drive into the two VCs in parallel as that would be a little less than 2 ohm, in series we are looking at 6+ ohms (so assumedly reducing the power and so the cone excursion / SPL which defeats the object somewhat) and as the Vanadium is rated peak at 250W I can't really run it single VC for fear of cooking the coil! Anyway, enough of my specific issues with that driver as that wasn't what the post was about!

So from what you say minbari it is quite possible the WINISD plots are right that in all reality an 8" could provide 'better' response than a 10" under these circumstances / compromises...

There are a lot of useful videos on this subject on Youtube, I'll leave one here, Hope this helps someone. Good luck!