10 dB = Twice as loud

[JLJunkieMX107 10+ year member]

Going from 100db to 110db only sounds like a 10% iuncrease in output to your ears? I dont want to fall into the same trap of arguing non-substantial terms that cant be quantified, but I dont know of anyone that would consider that much of a sound increase as merely a 10% increase.
Perceived sound levels, input power levels versus output... which one is the true deciding factor in what is a 'doubling' of the sound intensity? Either one could be argued as valid, they both are. this thread is merely arguing that back and forth.

I was not saying that it is a 10% increase, it is perceived to the human ear as a 10% increase.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I was not saying that it is a 10% increase, it is perceived to the human ear as a 10% increase.

Not my ear. Going from 100db to 110db sounds alot louder than a 10% increase. That would be several clicks of the volume button on a h/u.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

I love when people argue w/facts.
How about you UCP?

You want my address yet? How's your mom?

 

[donpisto 5,000+ posts]

Lots of varying responses. Let me go a bit more in depth to try to get a clearer-cut answer.

Someone mentioned to me that 3 dB is barely noticeable, not true, because I have done direct swaps with amps and notice a 0.5 dB change. But it could be very well be that I felt the change more than I heard, it has been a while since I have made that comparison. I guess what I need to do is the A/B testing that audioholic mentioned.

I responded to the individual saying that 3 dB is more than just barely noticeable, and theoretically 3 dB is twice as loud. When I wrote that, I was implying that all things remain constant. Say for example all you do is swap amps so that the second one you are using has double the power output (let's just say efficiency, etc of the amp are exactly the same as the first, it is just the power output that is different). With all things remaining constant, such as frequency, voltage, etc, I was implying that 3 dB will be twice as loud. Now I never stated whether this will be to the ear on the mic. So I guess it would be best to describe the decibel increase required to hear double the loudness and for the mic to read double the loudness.

All this is in theory. Of course, real world testing would be different because there are too many variables. This thread probably won't get a clear cut answer, but when saying "3 dB is twice as loud" or "10 dB is twice as loud", the question I'd like to find out is under what conditions for each?

 

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

according to vance dickason 3dB is double and this can be achieved by 1. doubling power and 2. doubling cone area. you do both = 6dB increase (in theory)

If you have a speaker with 100 watts and you add another speaker with another 100 watts, you do get +6 dB in theory, and that is "double" sound pressure (you just doubled what you had). That is NOT double loudness. The human ear does not work that way. . . .

Brian

 

[mile098 10+ year member]

If you have a speaker with 100 watts and you add another speaker with another 100 watts, you do get +6 dB in theory, and that is "double" sound pressure (you just doubled what you had). That is NOT double loudness. The human ear does not work that way. . . .
Brian

no u get +3..in theory

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

no u get +3..in theory

Double power, double cone area?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Learn how logarithms work people.

 

[mile098 10+ year member]

Double power, double cone area?

true true, reading>me:crap:

 

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

x2, 3db is about the minimum change in amplitude that you can hear

Really? I wonder why I can hear a difference for every notch that I crank the volume up when I'm testing. The termlab usually goes up about a db (until it stops increasing).

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Really? I wonder why I can hear a difference for every notch that I crank the volume up when I'm testing. The termlab usually goes up about a db (until it stops increasing).

The only realistic variable that will affect doubling the power not acheiving 3db is power compression. There really isn't "lots" of variables, pretty just that. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
What is considered an 'audible' difference in loudness depends on how the test is performed. Someone doing a blind A/B comparison (sit in one vehicle played at certain level, then sit in another... which was louder, and by how much) versus someone doing a real-time adjustment (turning up or down your volume knob by one increment. Its much easier to hear a difference in volume when making an adjustment than when doing the A/B comparison. Generally the 3db being an audible difference refers to my A/B example. When adjusting your volume knob, your ears can perceive a MUCH smaller change in output intensity.

DING!

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

I am not going to argue against science. But i believe there is a factor x that nobody is seeing. cause 10 db sounds a HELL of a lot louder not double. Actually if you want to do an experiment. (for whomever has termlabs PLEASE conduct this experiment) It isn't perfect science but it will be good enough to tell if the 10 db rule is correct. meter your car around 135 on up per say. so lets ay it hits a 136.3. Then don't look at the display at all and go by your ears and turn it up till it sounds about twice as loud. then remeter at that volume click bet it comes close to 3db. AND also thought of another thing. When i am adjusting my amplifiers why barely touching the gain I can hear a difference. I mean ANY movement on the gain. if you could only hear 20 percent difference at 3 db it would n't be true. but anyways PLEASE PLEASE somebody with a meter conduct this test

 

[99gtxgolfer 10+ year member]

If power doubles i.e. 100W -> 200W it increases sound level by 3db.

so i did a 136db to music with my Bl and tantrum 1200rms...i have a mm3000=3k rms, so i should theoretically do about a 144ish?

 

[mile098 10+ year member]

@ vehement: u do realize that test cant tell u anything since in order for it to be correct u have to have a perfect hearing which none of us has!

 

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

I am not going to argue against science. But i believe there is a factor x that nobody is seeing. cause 10 db sounds a HELL of a lot louder not double. Actually if you want to do an experiment. (for whomever has termlabs PLEASE conduct this experiment) It isn't perfect science but it will be good enough to tell if the 10 db rule is correct. meter your car around 135 on up per say. so lets ay it hits a 136.3. Then don't look at the display at all and go by your ears and turn it up till it sounds about twice as loud. then remeter at that volume click bet it comes close to 3db. AND also thought of another thing. When i am adjusting my amplifiers why barely touching the gain I can hear a difference. I mean ANY movement on the gain. if you could only hear 20 percent difference at 3 db it would n't be true. but anyways PLEASE PLEASE somebody with a meter conduct this test

I have done this more than once in a sound test used with noise canceling bluetooth for cell phones.

Using a radio shack meter and noise to simulate a truck engine running, the average of 6 people (not knowing the dB level they were listening to) when asked to tell me when the sound level was cut in half was 8.5 dB.

I have used my TL for hours looking for mic placement, door open vs. window down, left side vs. right side, best song for street beat, etc. . . .3 dB does not sound 2X louder to me.

Brian