10 dB = Twice as loud

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

well I realize it says this but I believe maybe at lower freq you can tell more of a difference vs higher freq. I really think it is freq dependent. cause you can't tell me 160 only sounds 4 times louder then 140

4 times is 4 times......it is a big difference

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

cause you can't tell me 160 only sounds 4 times louder then 140

This is the sort of arbitrary arguement these threads always boil down to.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

This is the sort of arbitrary arguement these threads always boil down to.

must be cause you feel it alot more lol

 

[adio 5,000+ posts]

i'm more interested in doubling the audible loudness than the sound pressure. mics can kiss my african american gluteus..... my ear drums getting pushed in at low frequencies satisfy me waaaaaay more

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

Perhaps it is cause you can feel it more audiolife.. who knows. But still you can tell a difference of under .5 DB. There have been numerous cars I have owned that I knew my peak note to the ear as opposed to the other before I even had the car on the meter... tried them and I was correct and most of the time between the two freq was under 1/2 db on the meter. I am still pretty sure it is the difference of the hearing BUT I wont' 100 percent rule out that your body could trick your mind into things the way your eyes deceive you. BUT I would like to do some test (to my ear on some lower volume systems that wouldn't have anything to do with "feeling it" but yes you could be correct. But you should sit in cars that are 20 db apart both at the headrest and you tell me that is only 4 times louder (again perhaps body tricks you) but SOUNDS 100 times louder lol. (sorry to change pace guys just was thinking at work it was POSSIBLE I still kinda believe my view BUT I am the type to always look at all aspects) If you guys can show me from a credible scientific source that this is factual that your ears perceive 10db as double at ALL volumes and the SAME freq then i will shut up eat my words and apologize lol... But honestly I don't think you will find it. Even if it is two articles I don't think it will come easy. So if one you can show me at all volumes 10 db sounds double. and at the same freq 10 db sounds double then I will eat my words my friends

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

You know thinking back though. When I would have a loud system ... example 155db(old audiocontrol) it hurt my ears for like a day then they adjusted. Then sitting in something 160ish. physically hurt worse but only tickled the ears a hair..... well still proof please but I guess the body really could be tricking the mind.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Perhaps it is cause you can feel it more audiolife.. who knows. But still you can tell a difference of under .5 DB. There have been numerous cars I have owned that I knew my peak note to the ear as opposed to the other before I even had the car on the meter... tried them and I was correct and most of the time between the two freq was under 1/2 db on the meter. I am still pretty sure it is the difference of the hearing BUT I wont' 100 percent rule out that your body could trick your mind into things the way your eyes deceive you. BUT I would like to do some test (to my ear on some lower volume systems that wouldn't have anything to do with "feeling it" but yes you could be correct. But you should sit in cars that are 20 db apart both at the headrest and you tell me that is only 4 times louder (again perhaps body tricks you) but SOUNDS 100 times louder lol. (sorry to change pace guys just was thinking at work it was POSSIBLE I still kinda believe my view BUT I am the type to always look at all aspects) If you guys can show me from a credible scientific source that this is factual that your ears perceive 10db as double at ALL volumes and the SAME freq then i will shut up eat my words and apologize lol... But honestly I don't think you will find it. Even if it is two articles I don't think it will come easy. So if one you can show me at all volumes 10 db sounds double. and at the same freq 10 db sounds double then I will eat my words my friends

perfect hearing can tell the diff in 1 db differences...judging from your habits on the levels you listen too i would say you probably have less than perfect hearing now

 

[adio 5,000+ posts]

You know thinking back though. When I would have a loud system ... example 155db(old audiocontrol) it hurt my ears for like a day then they adjusted. Then sitting in something 160ish. physically hurt worse but only tickled the ears a hair..... well still proof please but I guess the body really could be tricking the mind.

happens all the time

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

actually hearing tested.... read the other post lol. But I have above average hearing

 

[luvinthebass 5,000+ posts]

132 db's is ur ear drums flexing so i read..

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

I always wonder with these threads what people's backgrounds are....

Like people claiming 10dB is not a perceived doubling of sound pressure...what is your educational background? How familiar are you with auditory theory? I think some people believe just because they've used a TermLab before, they are experts in hearing....there's a lot of "psychology" behind what we hear and how we interpret it.

At least Brian did some actual tests with a control or two in place.

If you want to get started on stuff like this, read Brian Moore's "An Introduction to the Psychology of Hearing".

 

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

Like I posted earlier, I really think when you get that loud, it is a lot more than just what you hear, it is also the physical effect on your body. When I changed from the pair of 18's to the (4) 15's in my suburban, just listening to them sounded like a night and day difference. On the TL, the the peak output was a .2 dB difference. But, the 18's were at 42 Hz, the 15's at 36. I don't think that difference was just what I heard, it was also the physical stress it put on my body.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Id just like to point out how obvious it is that youve got bull shit spewing out every hole in your body. It doesnt take knowledge in the subject matter to make that very blatent observation, my friend.

Once again you come into a thread where you have nothing to say about the topic actually at hand but you try to give crap to the knowledgeable a experienced people in that thread wh actually do know they are talking about. The greatest concentration of BS per post I have seen in the last week has come from your dumb ***. STFU.

One more time for those that never took advanced math and know nothing about hearing and the logarithmic scale that it uses. Learn. Don't argue. Learn. The more you argue with well studied and repeatedly proven science, the dumber you look. By the nature of hearing, doubling actual pressure changes (double the cone area or double the stroke displacement) does not correlate to twice the perceived loudness.

 

[donpisto 5,000+ posts]

Reading this thread and its responses I am understanding that 10 dB is twice as loud...however, how is that measured? Isn't that difficult? It's like saying something tastes twice as sweet. How would you know if what you are rating on your particular scale or rating system is accurate? Now if we go with numbers, for instance, the number 6. We know that twice that number is 12. But when measuring one of our senses, such as twice the pain, twice the heat, twice as loud, twice as tasty.....how does one in fact truly know it is twice the amount of what is really being tested?

A quick example, not sure if this is valid, but say you're making tea and you use lets just say 1/2 teaspoon of sugar. Then you try another tea (made by someone else) which is the exact same thing except they put it 1 1/2 teaspoons of sugar...now that is 3 times the amount, but someone can perceive that to be twice as sweet. My point is, doesn't it depend on the individual as to what it twice as loud for what is being measured? I'm not talking about what the term lab will say as far as loudness goes, because that can be tested. You can double the power and say: given xxxx circumstances, if you double your power, you will roughly see a xxxx dB gain. My question is, how do you state 10 dB is twice as loud, what was that based on it, who was it based on, is that for the average human, what is the average human, etc?

IMO, there is no clear cut answer. This seems to be done based on theory and experiments, which is what science is about. But mainly, what I'm trying to get across is, how does one in fact know what they are hearing is twice as loud, how do you measure that "twice as xxxx" part? (xxxx being anything you would like, whether its loud, taste, or feel).

 

[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

something to do with logarithms, i forget tho