1 Ohm, 2 Ohm, 4 Ohm for best SQ? Subwoofer

How many high voltage amps have you auditioned? Really the only benefit of high current is that we're starting with only 12V at the power supply. Were our cars to use a 120V generator I think 8 ohm drivers would be a lot more prevalent.
I guess I would classify any amp that struggles to provide gobs of current along with any voltage it is able to pass, as the type of amp you're referring to. I've heard those and they can be impressive, no doubt. But there's something about the presentation of an amp that can deliver huge amounts of current, even into 4 or 8 ohms loads, that makes the bass just sound nicer. This must be a control thing. Now I know there are amps that can swing impressive amounts of both voltage and current equally, but most put a priority on one or the other. I would agree, 120v in the vehicle and we would certainly be using higher impedance drivers. Not many home setups getting anywhere near the 2ohm territory. But regardless of the starting voltage, I just prefer the presentation of a current source amplifier over a voltage source. If you read some of the Bob Carver white papers on some of his magnetic (or whatever) amplifiers, he touches on some of that and why this is the case. He also offers voltage source and current source taps on the back of some of his amps for this reason but you will have to partner speakers wisely with those. Planars like Magnepans would like the current source taps but high sensitivity drivers like a Lowther would prefer the voltage source taps. Low sensitivity, low frequency drivers are likely to do better on the current source taps; where higher sensitivity midbass and midrange drivers are likely to do better on the voltage source taps.
I remember the first time I came across this difference, when I had a measly little Soundstream Reference 300 and I kept blowing the fuse when using the 'high voltage' setting. I reluctantly flipped the switch over to 'high current' and scoffed at the idea that I had to settle for lower power but I didn't actually notice a big difference in output. What I did notice is that the bass was actually smoother and deeper. It just sounded better to me. The final load presented to the amp does have a lot to do with this but when the combination is right, a gain in subjective performance can sometimes be appreciated. But again, I would think this is mostly a preference thing.

 
I chalk a lot of the subjective differences between class A/B and class D amplifiers up to the same differences between CD and LP. LPs retain the fractal information in the recording and the CD does not. Below a certain threshold, it is on or off. Likewise, the signal processing inside the class D is on or off and the A/B is still handling the full waveform.

Not sure if I articulated that very well.

 
Provided you're not running things into clipping, you cannot nor can anyone else. The days of full range class D amps lacking are well over a decade behind us.


Kicker amps are typically good quality, I suspect even their entry level ones won't sound bad. Far more likely the sound you didn't like was cheap speakers or a crappy sound board they were in.

There should also be absolutely nothing a passive crossover will do that active cannot short of some notch filtering (which I doubt any car x-overs have). Pick the slope you like and pick a point at which to filter.

You will NOT hear anything short of 1% THD period and your amp is far from the weakest link particularly in a vehicle. You should buy a good quality amp for efficiency, reliability, customer service, and resale value, but "distortion" specs are quite easy to fudge and mean very little provided you're not scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel in which case those companies will lie anyway.

Trust me, a lot of the old conventional wisdom as proven false or simply no longer applies due to advances in technology. The 100$ wal mart kicker amp will likely outperform 500$ amps from back when Marky Mark had his Funky Bunch, and that's coming from a guy who loves old school..... again, there's reasons to buy high quality or even use old stuff, but hearing the difference should be about the last thing worth considering.
You could be right about cheap speakers/soundboards. I don't know, and that's why I'm here.

Do active crossovers have adjustable slopes? I never saw them in the '90s, though I think they were playing with them. Heck, they could have been out there, but I never saw 'em. They weren't popular among those I ran with, if they were even round. My active didn't have slope control.

Speakers used to provide plenty of harmonic distortion, and so we kept the amp's distortion levels as low as possible. What's the THD on most speakers now?

How much would I spend on sound quality today as opposed to pure SPL?

Regards,

Josh

 
You could be right about cheap speakers/soundboards. I don't know, and that's why I'm here.
Do active crossovers have adjustable slopes? I never saw them in the '90s, though I think they were playing with them. Heck, they could have been out there, but I never saw 'em. They weren't popular among those I ran with, if they were even round. My active didn't have slope control.

Speakers used to provide plenty of harmonic distortion, and so we kept the amp's distortion levels as low as possible. What's the THD on most speakers now?

How much would I spend on sound quality today as opposed to pure SPL?

Regards,

Josh
Download this software and see what we are working with today. Almost home theatre level imaging and staging.

HELIX DSP

 
I guess I would classify any amp that struggles to provide gobs of current along with any voltage it is able to pass, as the type of amp you're referring to. I've heard those and they can be impressive, no doubt. But there's something about the presentation of an amp that can deliver huge amounts of current, even into 4 or 8 ohms loads, that makes the bass just sound nicer. This must be a control thing. Now I know there are amps that can swing impressive amounts of both voltage and current equally, but most put a priority on one or the other. I would agree, 120v in the vehicle and we would certainly be using higher impedance drivers. Not many home setups getting anywhere near the 2ohm territory. But regardless of the starting voltage, I just prefer the presentation of a current source amplifier over a voltage source. If you read some of the Bob Carver white papers on some of his magnetic (or whatever) amplifiers, he touches on some of that and why this is the case. He also offers voltage source and current source taps on the back of some of his amps for this reason but you will have to partner speakers wisely with those. Planars like Magnepans would like the current source taps but high sensitivity drivers like a Lowther would prefer the voltage source taps. Low sensitivity, low frequency drivers are likely to do better on the current source taps; where higher sensitivity midbass and midrange drivers are likely to do better on the voltage source taps.
I remember the first time I came across this difference, when I had a measly little Soundstream Reference 300 and I kept blowing the fuse when using the 'high voltage' setting. I reluctantly flipped the switch over to 'high current' and scoffed at the idea that I had to settle for lower power but I didn't actually notice a big difference in output. What I did notice is that the bass was actually smoother and deeper. It just sounded better to me. The final load presented to the amp does have a lot to do with this but when the combination is right, a gain in subjective performance can sometimes be appreciated. But again, I would think this is mostly a preference thing.
Another interesting phenomenon is Taylor Fade's "7k roundup" where the high voltage JBL/Crown was significantly louder than the same or more clamped power from some of the high current offerings.

You make an interesting point about sub vs. mids and highs duties or even different types of drivers, but by all accounts hearing distortion in

You could be right about cheap speakers/soundboards. I don't know, and that's why I'm here.
Do active crossovers have adjustable slopes? I never saw them in the '90s, though I think they were playing with them. Heck, they could have been out there, but I never saw 'em. They weren't popular among those I ran with, if they were even round. My active didn't have slope control.

Speakers used to provide plenty of harmonic distortion, and so we kept the amp's distortion levels as low as possible. What's the THD on most speakers now?

How much would I spend on sound quality today as opposed to pure SPL?

Regards,

Josh
Distortion numbers anywhere are very easy to fudge so it's really hard to say. Under specific laboratory conditions you could probably get a low distortion measurement out of a turd.

Far more important is location, aiming, deadening, and processing power.

I have a upper middle of the road Kenwood head unit that's probably 6-8 years old with which I can change the slope of my crossover points, I'd be shocked if any of the all-in-one processors didn't have the same (Audison bit one, Rockford three sixty, JBL MS-8, JL cleansweep, etc. etc.).

If you really want to go balls-to-the-wall SQ pony up the 1200-1400$ on the Pioneer stage 4 dex-p99rs. It is the flagship SQ head unit. It sounds pricey but the EQ, crossover, and time alignment processing power built in replaces about a grand worth of outboard processors and it's a very finely built piece of electronics. DEH-80prs is far cheaper and packs a lot of processing power too and is an unbeatable bang to buck ratio.

From there, power is cheap and a good set of components can be had for

Conventional wisdom is to buy high enough quality that you don't have to worry about poor quality or reliability issues (this will be pretty obvious), and focus on processing, deadening, install/aiming... in that order.

 
Another interesting phenomenon is Taylor Fade's "7k roundup" where the high voltage JBL/Crown was significantly louder than the same or more clamped power from some of the high current offerings.
You make an interesting point about sub vs. mids and highs duties or even different types of drivers, but by all accounts hearing distortion in Interesting, indeed. I'll have to check that out, is it on this site or CACO?

And I'm not so sure it's a distortion thing that serves up the audible difference between high current and high voltage. It's probably more of a 'grip' thing. The current delivery would be analogous to torque, handling the difficult subwoofer driver because it needs a good strong push and pull. Where voltage delivery is more analogous to horsepower. Perhaps. I'm reaching here, covering for where I lack the ability to explain in electronic terms. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, though.
 
Another interesting phenomenon is Taylor Fade's "7k roundup" where the high voltage JBL/Crown was significantly louder than the same or more clamped power from some of the high current offerings.
You make an interesting point about sub vs. mids and highs duties or even different types of drivers, but by all accounts hearing distortion in

Distortion numbers anywhere are very easy to fudge so it's really hard to say. Under specific laboratory conditions you could probably get a low distortion measurement out of a turd.

Far more important is location, aiming, deadening, and processing power.

I have a upper middle of the road Kenwood head unit that's probably 6-8 years old with which I can change the slope of my crossover points, I'd be shocked if any of the all-in-one processors didn't have the same (Audison bit one, Rockford three sixty, JBL MS-8, JL cleansweep, etc. etc.).

If you really want to go balls-to-the-wall SQ pony up the 1200-1400$ on the Pioneer stage 4 dex-p99rs. It is the flagship SQ head unit. It sounds pricey but the EQ, crossover, and time alignment processing power built in replaces about a grand worth of outboard processors and it's a very finely built piece of electronics. DEH-80prs is far cheaper and packs a lot of processing power too and is an unbeatable bang to buck ratio.

From there, power is cheap and a good set of components can be had for

Conventional wisdom is to buy high enough quality that you don't have to worry about poor quality or reliability issues (this will be pretty obvious), and focus on processing, deadening, install/aiming... in that order.
The clean sweep is just a stock EQ overright with some EQ presets, week piece of equipment. The FiX is way stronger.

The TwK is the DSP.

$200 decent HU or stock if you have to.

Mini DSP $250

Raw 6.5s and tweeters, $250-$300

Mild sub $200

Decent power 5 channel $250

Acoustic treatments $500 plus depending on the car.

Then it's just study, tune, listen over and over.

 
You could be right about cheap speakers/soundboards. I don't know, and that's why I'm here.
Do active crossovers have adjustable slopes? I never saw them in the '90s, though I think they were playing with them. Heck, they could have been out there, but I never saw 'em. They weren't popular among those I ran with, if they were even round. My active didn't have slope control.

Speakers used to provide plenty of harmonic distortion, and so we kept the amp's distortion levels as low as possible. What's the THD on most speakers now?

How much would I spend on sound quality today as opposed to pure SPL?

Regards,

Josh
Active crossovers are in every way superior to passive maaan you are WAAAY behind on the times. Passives dont even come close to holding a candle to active in every way possible. Power loss, not being able to change slopes nor points on the go to match vehicle acoustics without totally redesigning them.. yuck.

This is a simple 2 way front stage head unit with active crossovers




If you want to see what actual modern SQ is like download that helix software on your computer losisatool linked and play around with it. Whatever sound quality was in the 90s would be last place contestant in today's SQ world.

 
Interesting, indeed. I'll have to check that out, is it on this site or CACO?
And I'm not so sure it's a distortion thing that serves up the audible difference between high current and high voltage. It's probably more of a 'grip' thing. The current delivery would be analogous to torque, handling the difficult subwoofer driver because it needs a good strong push and pull. Where voltage delivery is more analogous to horsepower. Perhaps. I'm reaching here, covering for where I lack the ability to explain in electronic terms. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, though.
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifier-reviews/596493-my-test-6-7k-amp-roundup.html

There's a matter of damping factor suffering at low impedance as well, but again that may be one of those always lied about and overblown specs?

 
You are correct. It's fluff. But brands like linear power live off that fluff. The fanboys won't except the reality. Butler Audio
A good read. Stephen Mantz wrote similarly about that topic.

Again, it's all really just **** measuring. So long as you stay out of the absolute bottom of the gutter brands none of that stuff should really effect audible results.... though the loser who copied your username with the magic ears will be along soon enough to disagree.

 
A good read. Stephen Mantz wrote similarly about that topic.
Again, it's all really just **** measuring. So long as you stay out of the absolute bottom of the gutter brands none of that stuff should really effect audible results.... though the loser who copied your username with the magic ears will be along soon enough to disagree.
I disagree.

j/k

 
Active crossovers are in every way superior to passive maaan you are WAAAY behind on the times. Passives dont even come close to holding a candle to active in every way possible. Power loss, not being able to change slopes nor points on the go to match vehicle acoustics without totally redesigning them.. yuck.
This is a simple 2 way front stage head unit with active crossovers


I like that stereo. I'd wished for something like it in the '90s but the tech wasn't there yet.

There's a Kenwood double din I'm looking at right now, and will have to see if its preouts are set up like that. I used to use a double din slot for a single din stereo and an EQ, but my EQ is internal to the deck now.

The Sony Xplode I've been running for the past six+ years has been a good unit. It's lasted and has some cool features. For example, low and high pass electronic crossovers. Problem is that I'm running one 10" sub for below 80Hz, two six inch woofers for down to 80Hz, two mids and two tweeters. The mid-woofers are -6dB with coils, but that has them 90deg out of phase with the rest of the system. The mids are also band passed at something like 500-3.5. The tweeters are high passed at 3.5 and up.

So the Sony's high pass is not doing much allowing me to keep from running capacitors on the mid-woofers. I will either turn that high pass off and run a 2nd stage crossover to let me bring those back into phase, or run a bandpass electronic if I can find one reasonable. I'll see what's out there.

Part of the fun has always been in design for me. Though I'm a gunsmith, Dad is an electrical engineer and I grew up with those concepts.

Regards,

Josh

 
I like that stereo. I'd wished for something like it in the '90s but the tech wasn't there yet.
There's a Kenwood double din I'm looking at right now, and will have to see if its preouts are set up like that. I used to use a double din slot for a single din stereo and an EQ, but my EQ is internal to the deck now.

The Sony Xplode I've been running for the past six+ years has been a good unit. It's lasted and has some cool features. For example, low and high pass electronic crossovers. Problem is that I'm running one 10" sub for below 80Hz, two six inch woofers for down to 80Hz, two mids and two tweeters. The mid-woofers are -6dB with coils, but that has them 90deg out of phase with the rest of the system. The mids are also band passed at something like 500-3.5. The tweeters are high passed at 3.5 and up.

So the Sony's high pass is not doing much allowing me to keep from running capacitors on the mid-woofers. I will either turn that high pass off and run a 2nd stage crossover to let me bring those back into phase, or run a bandpass electronic if I can find one reasonable. I'll see what's out there.

Part of the fun has always been in design for me. Though I'm a gunsmith, Dad is an electrical engineer and I grew up with those concepts.

Regards,

Josh
We do typically flip the phase on the mid bass in a 3 way plus sub setup. A DSP let's you shift phase in small increments.

 
Activity
No one is currently typing a reply...
Old Thread: Please note, there have been no replies in this thread for over 3 years!
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.

About this thread

bunnerrabbit

10+ year member
Member
Thread starter
bunnerrabbit
Joined
Location
Wilmington
Start date
Participants
Who Replied
Replies
29
Views
2,745
Last reply date
Last reply from
LosIsATool
IMG_20260516_193114554_HDR.jpg

sherbanater

    May 16, 2026
  • 0
  • 0
IMG_20260516_192955471_HDR.jpg

sherbanater

    May 16, 2026
  • 0
  • 0

New threads

Top