Why not _-way active?

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Difficult to get a good phantom with the horrible placement of front speakers in so many vehicles?

"Please move your right leg; it's blocking the speaker".

My mids and tweets ride high... midbass in the door is not usually a problem. I know I try to keep vocals out of the lower door speakers.

 

[supernov4]

Difficult to get a good phantom with the horrible placement of front speakers in so many vehicles?

"Please move your right leg; it's blocking the speaker".

Yes it's for the phantoms

It helps with center imaging when doing a 2 seat tune

People do it with left and right
But easier with a center channel kind of dividing the dash into 2 segments
With both driver and passenger in center

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

I think 3 way is the simplest solution. I base it more on the way our ears pick up frequencies. At ~100hz sound becomes directional front to back. At ~300hz our ears begin to perceive height. So our midbass driver needs to be effective down to ~80-100hz, which most 6.5s can handle depending on SPL expectations. So then our next bottle neck is ~300hz, which means a midrange driver in the kickpanel aimed on-axis or a something like a ~3" driver up on the dash. Assuming we us a 3" driver for midrange duty, that it's gonna start beaming at ~3kz and the beaming will get pretty bad ~5-6khz. If you can get the driver on-axis, the beaming won't be an issue, but then you'll end up with a 1 seat wonder and the speakers won't look symmetrical, so we need a tweeter to handle ~3khz+.

 

[supernov4]

I think 3 way is the simplest solution. I base it more on the way our ears pick up frequencies. At ~100hz sound becomes directional front to back. At ~300hz our ears begin to perceive height. So our midbass driver needs to be effective down to ~80-100hz, which most 6.5s can handle depending on SPL expectations. So then our next bottle neck is ~300hz, which means a midrange driver in the kickpanel aimed on-axis or a something like a ~3" driver up on the dash. Assuming we us a 3" driver for midrange duty, that it's gonna start beaming at ~3kz and the beaming will get pretty bad ~5-6khz. If you can get the driver on-axis, the beaming won't be an issue, but then you'll end up with a 1 seat wonder and the speakers won't look symmetrical, so we need a tweeter to handle ~3khz+.

Ya i was having issues with a pillar mounted mids
I moved them into the dash firing up to windshield
Fixed my phasing issues opened up my sound stage everything just blended better, helps with beaming
Night and day difference

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Ya i was having issues with a pillar mounted mids
I moved them into the dash firing up to windshield
Fixed my phasing issues opened up my sound stage everything just blended better, helps with beaming
Night and day difference

You never know what you're going to get until you actually mount the drivers.

 

[supernov4]

You never know what you're going to get until you actually mount the drivers.

I know i put so much effort into those pillars. aiming, fiberglass, wrapping etc
Then had to toss them lol

 

[supernov4]

Then i just cut a hole in dash. Jammed it in there like half hour work and it's competition worthy... go figure

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

How does that work though... having the center channel? Wouldn't that literally narrow the stereo separation?

 

[supernov4]

How does that work though... having the center channel? Wouldn't that literally narrow the stereo separation?

Of not done right it could ruin the stage making it feel narrow or even too bright

But generally when done right it doesn't affect width
Ideally you would want "real center processing" feature in your dsp.
Not sure what kind of witchcraft is going on in the software
But can be done without it
You still have your left and right
The center is just supplementing the center, it's more of a bridge between left and right, as with everything in car audio there will be compromises
I have always done single seat alignment
Cause I rarely have passengers anyway
So I never really dug into 2 seat tunes

Personally I find tweeters to be crucial to width, i would get them as far off to the sides as possible like sails

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Not a fan of center channel use.

*NOTE*
I understand people like full-range rear output, minimalistic - limited/narrow bandwidth, differential rear fill, surround sound, and other saturated listening environments, not for or against, just talking about a 3-way setup and staging.

I already have a Dolby Atmos 9.4.4 for my HT setup, for both discrete listening and any manner of surround or multi-channel playback - strictly stereo in the car.

I dealt with all kinds of different recording and mixing applications when getting my sound engineering certs.

What you come to realize is that almost everything (musically speak-er-ing) you're going to listen to is mixed for stereo playback, not Atmos or other forms of discrete or simulated multi-channel playback.

A sound engineer is going to get with the artist, and together they are mixing to create the stage, in stereo, that they want you to hear in your mind's eye.

Using the center channel, for me, simply moves the stage forward or backward, and it does muddy the stage a bit.

Using a 3-way setup allows you to further control the beaming and staging (height), fairly dramatically, over a conventional 2-way.

It allows you to move the entire stage upward and outward, which is not really possible (to the same degree/level) with a conventional 2-way

And the reason I always start with 3-400hz in the doors for my midbass, 250-300hz to 3.5k for the mids (usually in a .5 to 1L sealed/stuffed enclosure or IB where possible.

Not using a center channel also helps in dealing with crossover-induced phase issues, as anytime you assign "different" x-over frequencies to any of the drivers in the stage, there's potential phasing anomalies/issues, even if it's just a center channel.

Using a good quality DSP may also negate phase issues, as they generally have very linear phase-neutral bandpass reproduction output before amplification.

The use of a 3-way stage can essentially negate most issues with beaming, nulls, etc., at least to the extent that one can, before final tuning in a vehicle environment.

The next thing is location, temp mount your drivers, measure, listen, measure, adjust, measure, listen, adjust, etc.

Once all is as flat as can be, then attenuate to personal taste.

If you've done what you can for location, crossovers, etc, then you tune to a single seat for personal playback, in the best stereo stage you can master, that is the best for your front stage in the auto environment.

AND

You're now listening to it the way it was meant to be heard, by the artist and the mixing engineer.

Now, let's talk about pro-style, multi-driver, balls-to-the-walls LAF tuning...

 

[BP1Fanatic]

They do. The 8" is actually the subwoofer. It has it's own enclosure. For my daughter's car, I put a 6.5" in there. Her car sound pretty good.

What year(s) Mustangs have that configuration?

 

[BP1Fanatic]

They should bring back bench seats in cars
They're like little sofas in cars
I always like them

Hence, Panther chassis cars

Not completely a bench front seat, but has 3 seatbelts when the 2 arm rests are up.

 

[Old_Slapper]

What year(s) Mustangs have that configuration?

2005 to 2014.
A lot of people are installing aftermarket subs in them, and they sound pretty good. They are dual 1-ohm subs that are wired in series, if I remember right.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

2005 to 2014.
A lot of people are installing aftermarket subs in them, and they sound pretty good. They are dual 1-ohm subs that are wired in series, if I remember right.


View attachment 70783

I checked the 2005 GT and it shows the 8" and a component set in the 6x8 area. A 6" or so and a tweeter. Factory 3-way setup!!! Kinda makes me want a Mustang.

 

[BP1Fanatic]

2005 to 2014.
A lot of people are installing aftermarket subs in them, and they sound pretty good. They are dual 1-ohm subs that are wired in series, if I remember right.


View attachment 70783

Nice!!!!