Taramps BASS 5K vs DS18 H-KO5

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

What rms hooligan HKO did you run and did run warm? Been eyeing up the (2) 5k’s or 10k. Thanks

I’ve run a pair of K02’s for no other reason that I could not afford to buy the bigger K05 at the time I got the first K02, at around $399, the 2nd for $449? , both from DS18 refurbished off eBay (still less than a new 5K). I never bumped up to the 5 for that reason. I run my amps at 4 ohms as they are most efficient and the best damping at 4 ohms. They only work half as hard too. They are not “Cool” running but unless pushed hard, they don’t get too hot either (iv'e never had them shut down from thermal overlaod). They are very clean and tight, really like them a lot. Heavy units, built like a tank! ‘I’m only running a 320 amp alternator and a small extra battery in the rear. My feelings are if you’re going to run the 8K or 10K, you’ll likely need to go with an even beefier alternator and bump the 2/0 cable to dual 2/0 or single 4/0, new fuses/breakers and a Lithium Ion battery/bank to get the most out of that set up. I run the wire from front to the rear, about 15ft, both ground and power and upgrading all that is TOO much money!

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

You will never hear or notice that damping factor. You look inside those amps and see the brands of caps etc and you will sometimes see they are the same or of equal quality. Taramps isn’t Chinese made. Not all Korean amps are created equal either. Class D power is Class D power, if they make the rated power or more, it comes down to efficiency, features, price, and size if space is limited. Of course another important factor is warranty and how well a brand stands by it. It’s never fun when an amp blows and you have to wait for it to be repaired or when you wait and they say it’s not covered. A hooligan 5k is $1000, a smart 5k can be had for $460. The crossovers are junk on that smart 5k but if it blows up, I send it right back to Amazon and get another one in 2-3 days no questions asked (which is exactly what I did). For me paying double for better crossovers isn’t worth it to me. To say something is better quality and not being able to hear a difference isn’t worth it to me either. It all comes down to personal preference.

I never said that Taramps are Chinese made, they're Brazilian, I was refereeing to the DS18 Chinese counterparts. The cheaper DS18s, the EXL line or GSX are also Brazilian amps just like Taramps and priced comparatively. All things considered, when you get to a certain level, cheaper price means cheaper parts, cheaper design, cheaper made,. Damping factor is what controls the woofers cone movement and the best made amps have very high damping factors. Making general statements about class D’s all being Class D’s is like saying all cars with V8’s are the same, not correct, not even. Half bridge, full bridge, hybrids and there are other types of D too all exist for different reasons and applications. If your idea of a good time is pulling amplifiers that blow their crossovers just because Amazon affords you that option, then you have too much time on your hands, time and effort I do not care to waste because the amp lacks consistent design and construction quality. I know a lot about design and construction, I was a computer design/construction, engineer (double E) who specialized in surface mount technology for Micron PC before I retired. I’ve built a half dozen high end car systems as well as more than 20 home theater systems costing upwards of $20-$50,000. Don’t get me wrong, I think Taramps are a good product, but I like the Hooligan series from DS18 better – in this scenario. I run Focal FPS class A/B for the front and rears too, because they are amazing sounding amplifiers. Are they expensive, well not if have a little patience. I picked up two FPS 2.300’s for $299.00 each (display models) from woofers etc. You’d be hard press to persuade me that there is a better amp out there for that amount or even twice that kind of $$. And yes, contrary to what you state, you can hear the difference!

 

[Firewalker]

djdillion knows what he is doing as he runs a car audio subwoofer building business doing custom only builds. He also used to install professionally and ran a car audio business at one point before moving on.

Also if you can hear the difference then why not take the 10K challenge that is out there from Mr. Clark. No one yet has been able to get his money in what 10 or 14 years?

 

[spokey9]

The shop I go to hooked up a rf bd2500 in my car to convince me to buy (for $800 ) the used one they had...I couldn't hear any difference from my smart3 I bought new from taramps for $250

 

[djdilliodon!]

I never said that Taramps are Chinese made, they're Brazilian, I was refereeing to the DS18 Chinese counterparts. The cheaper DS18s, the EXL line or GSX are also Brazilian amps just like Taramps and priced comparatively. All things considered, when you get to a certain level, cheaper price means cheaper parts, cheaper design, cheaper made,. Damping factor is what controls the woofers cone movement and the best made amps have very high damping factors. Making general statements about class D’s all being Class D’s is like saying all cars with V8’s are the same, not correct, not even. Half bridge, full bridge, hybrids and there are other types of D too all exist for different reasons and applications. If your idea of a good time is pulling amplifiers that blow their crossovers just because Amazon affords you that option, then you have too much time on your hands, time and effort I do not care to waste because the amp lacks consistent design and construction quality. I know a lot about design and construction, I was a computer design/construction, engineer (double E) who specialized in surface mount technology for Micron PC before I retired. I’ve built a half dozen high end car systems as well as more than 20 home theater systems costing upwards of $20-$50,000. Don’t get me wrong, I think Taramps are a good product, but I like the Hooligan series from DS18 better – in this scenario. I run Focal FPS class A/B for the front and rears too, because they are amazing sounding amplifiers. Are they expensive, well not if have a little patience. I picked up two FPS 2.300’s for $299.00 each (display models) from woofers etc. You’d be hard press to persuade me that there is a better amp out there for that amount or even twice that kind of $$. And yes, contrary to what you state, you can hear the difference!

That damping factor isn’t on the level of class A/B amps from back in the good days and in many cases, who even know if it’s an accurate spec. They list THD at .2% or less, I can guarantee you it will make nowhere near rated power at that level. It’s why all bench tests are measured to 1% and to clipping. Reading these specs and taking them as gospel is newb move. If you can hear the difference between amplifiers using no filtering, both making the same power, same speakers install etc, you can still win that $10k from Richard Clark. I’ve been in this game a long time, been building subs since 2003, owned a car audio business and was a dealer for many top brands. The amps out now, they aren’t close to the quality to what use to be. The taramps I had that blew it wasn’t the xover, it smoked on the power supply. If you think Korean amps don’t blow, just look how many down4sound refurbs are available. You are correct that not all v8’s or the same. Not all amps are the same either but when two amps make identical power and you aren’t using any signal processing , they indeed sound the same. If you think that isn’t the case, contact Richard Clark and take the challenge, get a free $10k

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I didn’t say that you didn’t know what you were saying or that you were inexperienced, but some of the points made were inaccurate and overly general from a sound and applicable electrical point of view. Granted specs are not everything so having the engineering background and knowing how ot decifer and understanding the math makes a difference. It’s just that not everyone wants to dick around with pulling amps and reinstalling them. That explains the difference in our approach to what is better, respective of the goal; I’m not that vested. I don’t do SPL builds at all, SQ only, don’t need/want to upgrade the entire electrical system and reinvent the entire interior just to make ones ears bleed, can do that sky diving! My opinion is based on the observation that most don’t have the connections (infrastructure or knowledge) to constantly invest in that sort of operation, many likely want to build it and enjoy it, for awhile. The biggest concern with the damping factor is the amount of drop you experience when running low impedance loads. I run at 4 ohms almost exclusively and so the efficiency and the damping are at their peak (not the output). If you start out at 200 @ 4ohms and start dropping the load down to .5- 1 ohm, you can get to a point where the damping factor is <80 and no longer controls the woofer as much as you want it to. Granted, that is a SQ thing and you can hear the difference in a good SQ system, no question. If you’re just pumping out 20000 watts to 8 15’s and have to use multiple pro-style bullet tweeters and 8” pro style mids just to keep up then you are not really concerned about sound quality, objectively speaking, not my cup of tea. I appreciate the experience that you mentioned; one can’t have too much and respect everyone’s opinion. But, at the end of the day, opinions are like arseholes, everyone’s got one, right? There’s plenty or room for differences of opinion and when the end goal is different, the application and design objectives will be different too.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

That damping factor isn’t on the level of class A/B amps from back in the good days and in many cases, who even know if it’s an accurate spec. They list THD at .2% or less, I can guarantee you it will make nowhere near rated power at that level. It’s why all bench tests are measured to 1% and to clipping. Reading these specs and taking them as gospel is newb move. If you can hear the difference between amplifiers using no filtering, both making the same power, same speakers install etc, you can still win that $10k from Richard Clark. I’ve been in this game a long time, been building subs since 2003, owned a car audio business and was a dealer for many top brands. The amps out now, they aren’t close to the quality to what use to be. The taramps I had that blew it wasn’t the xover, it smoked on the power supply. If you think Korean amps don’t blow, just look how many down4sound refurbs are available. You are correct that not all v8’s or the same. Not all amps are the same either but when two amps make identical power and you aren’t using any signal processing , they indeed sound the same. If you think that isn’t the case, contact Richard Clark and take the challenge, get a free $10k

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I use Audison or AudioControl DSP and agree with your sentiment. I don’t think were really on different pages in our knowledge, just different applications with different result objectives; sorry if It came across any other way. I've been building, as a hobby since 1983, I'm 62 and been around many many times. First real system i admit to having was a Concord PL515 Dolby A/B/C cassette deck and Linear Power 100/100 watt beast of a clean A/B amp. Had to source aftermarket Phillips speakers (woofers and tweeters) and Pyle woofers (back when Pyle didn’t mean a Pyle, literally) or RadioShack to find anything in the way of separates back then. I used to run all class A and the Reference Sound Stream amps and the Van Gogh’s were some of my favorites, loved them! Also ran Adcom’s for a while, they were exceptional too. I was a Rep for Atomics’ back in the day too (Greater Idaho/Northwest) I’ve run RF, SS, some JBL/Crown models, Pioneer GM Champion and PRS, Zapco, Brax, Focal amps, you name it, I've probably treid at least one. Reemmber the huge Sony Big Red Mobile ES XM-7547 and that huge gold one, the dual mono setup, the PPI art series, (real) Orion HCCA's, had all of those at one time or another. For playback, more specifically CD playback, love the Pioneer PRS HU’s with the Burr Brown DAC’s, currently using a DEH-80PRS with a BT dongle installed (yeah I’m also late to the game but getting into the streaming, lossless high res source material too). I think that when you get into the realm of what you’re doing, you’re always going to be pushing the envelope and blowing stuff here and there; these models that we're talking about are all pretty damn impressive. Coming from where I started, they are pretty amazing as far as the watt for dollar goes. Competition builds are for true diehards (and younger bucs) just not my thing .I still don’t agree that any output as long as it is the same, irrespective of everything, sound the same, Again, maybe in the realm of SPL 150DB drag races, but not in SQ setups that I've built. Maybe if all components are the same and you’re talking about simply trading one 5000 watt mono amp for another, maybe, but not in all applications.

 

[djdilliodon!]

I use Audison or AudioControl DSP and agree with your sentiment. I don’t think were really on different pages in our knowledge, just different applications with different result objectives; sorry if It came across any other way. I've been building, as a hobby since 1983, I'm 62 and been around many many times. First real system i admit to having was a Concord PL515 Dolby A/B/C cassette deck and Linear Power 100/100 watt beast of a clean A/B amp. Had to source aftermarket Phillips speakers (woofers and tweeters) and Pyle woofers (back when Pyle didn’t mean a Pyle, literally) or RadioShack to find anything in the way of separates back then. I used to run all class A and the Reference Sound Stream amps and the Van Gogh’s were some of my favorites, loved them! Also ran Adcom’s for a while, they were exceptional too. I was a Rep for Atomics’ back in the day too (Greater Idaho/Northwest) I’ve run RF, SS, some JBL/Crown models, Pioneer GM Champion and PRS, Zapco, Brax, Focal amps, you name it, I've probably treid at least one. Reemmber the huge Sony Big Red Mobile ES XM-7547 and that huge gold one, the dual mono setup, the PPI art series, (real) Orion HCCA's, had all of those at one time or another. For playback, more specifically CD playback, love the Pioneer PRS HU’s with the Burr Brown DAC’s, currently using a DEH-80PRS with a BT dongle installed (yeah I’m also late to the game but getting into the streaming, lossless high res source material too). I think that when you get into the realm of what you’re doing, you’re always going to be pushing the envelope and blowing stuff here and there; these models that we're talking about are all pretty damn impressive. Coming from where I started, they are pretty amazing as far as the watt for dollar goes. Competition builds are for true diehards (and younger bucs) just not my thing .I still don’t agree that any output as long as it is the same, irrespective of everything, sound the same, Again, maybe in the realm of SPL 150DB drag races, but not in SQ setups that I've built. Maybe if all components are the same and you’re talking about simply trading one 5000 watt mono amp for another, maybe, but not in all applications.

I’ve always been an SQ guy, I still am just my current setup is more geared towards spl but it is still a great sounding setup. I’ve run it all from back in the good days. Amps from us amps to zapco, Phoenix gold ms series and Ti, to brax and everything else. Speakers from cdt to rainbow to dls to the best raw drivers around. The biggest advantage today in amplifiers is the power to dollar and efficiency. You can run so much power and never have to use it all keeping things super clean. I find myself now just buying things to try them out lol. Sometimes I just order directly from the factories that make it without a brand on it.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Sounds like you have the same addiction, uh, I mean passion as I do! While SPL is fun, the finesse of SQ is my forte. The ever elusive goal for the next best thing is, well, addicting! Back in the day, I was ecstatic to find the 100watt linear power amps, concord cassette decks, which were introduced at DOW Sound Stereo in San Diego. They were really ahead of their time. I got my start from a repair guy at the local hi-fi shop (Pacific Stereo) who would sell me Phillips and A/D/S home speaker replacement drivers. I was in there listening one day and said to him, man I wish I could get this sound in my vehicle, the rest is history! He would just order them from the factory and sell them to me, pretty cool. Taught me all about crossovers and stuff that I didn’t have a clue about coming out of high school. After a couple of years, the inside of my Mazda Rx2 looked like patchwork quilt! Years later and with a proper EE education, I find that you still have to study up on this stuff to know the differences relative to what you want to accomplish. With D getting up there and in some instance overtaking quality A/b stuff, the pool is getting even muddier. it's pretty exciting though, for sure, always keep me on my toes! I just wish I would have taken up something a little less expensive, like growin/selling legal cannabis or something!

 

[oxsign 5,000+ posts]

@djdillion being that the crossover is an issue with the smart, HD or MD Taramps, why not consider the bass5k? Just curious of the difference between the bass and the others?

 

[djdilliodon!]

@djdillion being that the crossover is an issue with the smart, HD or MD Taramps, why not consider the bass5k? Just curious of the difference between the bass and the others?

The bass version gives you a little more range but is still the same crappy 12db Xovers. With all the external processing most use now of days it’s really not that big of a deal

 

[HardofWhoring]

These were the two I was looking at for my next amp. For my subs at 2.66ohms, both of these will make the power and fit the space I have. I was leaning towards the DS18, but probably a month or two off before I purchase. Taramps has 3 amps that are right in that range, but I think it was the bass 5k was the only one that is rated at more than 2 ohms.

 

[oxsign 5,000+ posts]

The bass version gives you a little more range but is still the same crappy 12db Xovers. With all the external processing most use now of days it’s really not that big of a deal

Gotch. I'm in the market myself for a 3K ap with a budget of $400-$500. I was also looking at the GZCA 3000.M1. It's a little over my budget but it seems like a good one.

 

[Firewalker]

Aurras DG-3000.1

sales@theamplab.net

theamplab.net

And Korean at that.