Help with JBL speaker repair - refoam gone wrong?

[BenH]

But they absolutely do, and the wiggle room you have in the magnetic gap is only a few thousandths of an inch tolerance before you wind up in trouble. I personally wouldn't even bother trying to repair a stock speaker at all, but it's quite easy to misalign a coil when repairing/replacing a surround and short of replacing the surround again or pulling it up and re-gluing there's no fix.

That said, the coil former may be cracked/bent/damaged somehow and then even if it were aligned true you'd get rubbing and if the triple joint were failing (where the coil former, cone, and spider meet) or if the spider were separating from the frame or tearing that would also cause buzzing at any excursion.

It may have been instructional to test the speaker at low volume with the ruined surround removed to see if it weren't something else wrong.

Ok, so when I say the cone doesn't shift around I suppose that isn't technically true, while it moves up and down freely, any side-to-side movement is probably no more than a few thousands of an inch...if that.

While I saw some tutorials about doing shims for general speaker repair, none of the videos I found that discuss repairing car speakers like this, nor the instructions sent from the people I bought the repair kit from mention any need to shim.

Here are some example videos:



Now I did find another video just searching here where he appears to do a shim on a car speaker:


His speaker doesn't look exactly like mine...he rips off the piece covering the voice coil and apparently his repair kit came with another replacement cap to put on top of mine did not. This is what I ordered:

Toyota, Lexus Rubber Edge 6"x9" Speaker Repair Kit RSK-6x9 (PAIR)

And the instructions came with no mention of having to line anything up with shims.

So I just want to be sure that you are saying that if I refoamed it without shims, it is entirely possible that the vibration I am still getting is because I didn't shim when I did it?

If that is the case, it may be worth me trying my hand at it one more time as the cost and all issues from replacing would be much less if I can do this.

thanks

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I really appreciate the help, but a lot of what you are saying is still greek to me. In addition to the overall terminology not something I have experience with, it is difficult to answer your questions because I simply do not know how the car is wired, and there is not a lot of information published. Short of me ripping out the entire car and checking the wiring myself, I am relying on others who have done similar scenarios with this exact same vehicle. This is why I linked the post I did several times. He states in it:


So with that being said, and hoping his description answers more than I have been able to, does all your information from the last post still stand? If so, I will re-read it again and try to understand it to the best of my ability, but on the surface it would seem that some/much of what you are stating is in contradiction to what this blog post says.

thanks.

I'd be surprised if the main speaker leads are crossed over at all. It's possible, but in my experience, unusual. I'm checking that out currently, stay tuned!

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I just checked with crutchfield, they indicate that the main leads are full range. That means, easy peasy! Get the 2ohm or 3ohm replacement coaxials and you're good to go. Just disconnect any other leads and tape them up. I think that the other post was referring to actually using the leads at the termination point, at the end where they are located. it's likely that they have some sort of filter on the dash speakers and prior to the tweeter leads if they are separate, but almost certainly not on the main speakers as that would require the use of a cap/coil or just a coil passively and while possible electronically, VERY unlikely - especially given the age of the car.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Additionally, since all the links I provided are from Crutchfield, if you don't like the results, you can return the speakers and start again!

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

I am assuming they are both full range from the head unit prior to any cap/crossover and in this

This did not even cross my mind (no pun intended). Maybe just connect a tweeter to each wire set at a time to see if both sets play highs.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Here is a copy of the transcript

This did not even cross my mind (no pun intended). Maybe just connect a tweeter to each wire set at a time to see if both sets play highs.

I was thinking the same, then I figured I would hit up Crutch. Here is the transcript:

Based on your recent interaction with us, a copy of the chat transcript is available below.

Date and Time: December 8, 2023 3:10:02 PM PST
Subject: 2007 Camry, replacing OEM factory speakers. Are the dash speaker leads and main door speaker leads full range? I figured I could get the 3 ohm coaxial JBLs from y'al and forget the dash speakers, use the 6x9 in the rear and the 5.25" in the front doors.

04:10PM	Virtual Agent - Let me check on that for you...
04:10PM	steve - 2007 Camry, replacing OEM factory speakers. Are the dash speaker leads and main door speaker leads full range? I figured I could get the 3 ohm coaxial JBLs from y'al and forget the dash speakers, use the 6x9 in the rear and the 5.25" in the front doors.
04:10PM	Virtual Agent - ...it'll just be a moment.
04:10PM	Steve - 2007 Camry, replacing OEM factory speakers. Are the dash speaker leads and main door speaker leads full range? I figured I could get the 3 ohm coaxial JBLs from y'al and forget the dash speakers, use the 6x9 in the rear and the 5.25" in the front doors.
04:10PM	Virtual Agent - ["We need to get you with one of our team members. You will now be placed in queue for Sales. This may take several minutes. Please hang tight.", ]
04:11PM	Aaron - Hi Steve!
04:11PM	Aaron - Hope your day is going well!
04:11PM	Steve - Nello Aaron.
04:11PM	Steve - Doing well, thanks for asking.
04:12PM	Aaron - I can check on that for you. One moment.
04:12PM	Steve - Cool. I doubt they are crossed over, maybe the dash speakers, but not the main front and rear leads, right?
04:13PM	Aaron - They aren't. Looks like the front and rear door speakers get full range. Nothing tells me other wise.
04:13PM	Steve - Cool. that is what I needed.
04:14PM	Steve - Have a great day, weekend!
04:14PM	Aaron - You too!
04:14PM	Aaron - Have a good one!
04:15PM	Aaron
04:15PM	Chat ended

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

that is the case, it may be worth me trying my hand at it one more time as the cost and all issues from replacing would be much less if I can do this.

When I refoamed some rear speakers on a Kia Optima, the instructions stated I could do so without shimming. After the foam glued to the cone was dry, I had to play music at low volume and move the cone around until the sound was clear. At that point you apply clothing line clips to hold it in place and just wait till it dries. It worked for me. It was a single 7" OEM subwoofer.

 

[BenH]

Here is a copy of the transcript

I was thinking the same, then I figured I would hit up Crutch. Here is the transcript:

....

I'm sorry but I don't trust Crutchfield. Especially because I was told the opposite by them the other day when I asked. I was talking on the phone with them and they didn't offer the information, but when I specifically asked about that I was told that if I just wired the coaxial speaker directly to the current wire setup I would only get one set of sound.

Additionally, I highly doubt that the gentlemen in the blog post would have gone through all that work if he could have just "hooked them up". He seems knowledgeable on the subject, so when it comes to some "salesperson" at Crutchfield vs a seemingly knowledgeable person who has done this before, I'll go with the latter.

It is not that I don't trust YOU, but you yourself have no direct knowledge of this setup and are relying on a third party here. I'll also note that you didn't mention, nor did they ask about what type of system was in the Camry. It is the JBL premium sound system (without navigation). I expect that the wiring is quite a bit different than the standard sound system. Although I'm not sure if the standard sound system also uses other JBL speakers, but if you aren't being specific as to the setup, then who knows? Additionally, if you go on Crutchfield to look at speakers for this setup it shows this listed under install notes:

Your terminology continues to confuse me with "main leads" "termination points", etc. I'm trying to deal with this in simple terms, so let me restate simply:

These rear speakers are components and although they are physically attached via the bracket they each have 2 wires coming out from them which are all 4 going into a quick connect wiring harness. It is hard to see in the pics, but this should show:

You can see there are 2 bundles of 2 wires that are then wrapped, but you can see the 4 wires on the quick connect.
The other side of the quick connect that is coming from the amp also (obviously) has 4 wires going into it.

The blog post I have linked multiple times (and will link again):

Upgrading Rear Speakers Toyota Camry With Factory JBL Sound System

Car audio tips tricks how to vehicle 12volt mobile video alarm keyless entry remote start hands free Bluetooth electronics installation autotech

caraudiotips.blogspot.com

I think he is pretty clear in stating what the exact issue is and showing that he has to clip the tweeter wires from the coaxial speaker so they can be run into the 2 wires on the pigtail above that carry the tweeter signal, while running the other 2 wires from the pigtail to the main connectors on the coaxial.

I don't mean to be obstinate here, and I'm not trying to pit my knowledge against yours, I'm trying to show what someone else (who at some point ran a blog about caraudio) is saying about my exact same scenario.

For what it is worth I went to like 4-5 audio places over the past week and some of them start out talking about how simple it will be, but when I show them the setup and press them to it, they all appear to concede that if you wire a coaxial up directly you will not get the full sound.

Finally, I'll note that your chat with Crutchfield you seemed to be focusing on the front door and dash speakers. This whole post has been about replacing my rear deck speakers.

EDIT: Just adding on another confirmation from this video:

same video jump ahead:


Really best if you watch about 3 minutes from the first link to get the whole explanation, but at the least click the second link and watch about 1 minute where he clearly explains the wiring he is doing is only because he is replacing the factory amp and if you are not replacing the JBL amp you have to wire them separately (i.e. use components, or do the trick with splicing the wiring off the coaxial tweeters like the blog post).

So again, there is just too much other information contradicting what Crutchfield states by people directly working on these cars.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I do have over forty years audio experience, but I don't know everything for every car ever made, that is true. Crutchfield has a huge database and does many installation on 1000's of cars, they too know quite a bit. As for the speakers referenced in the chat, doesn;t matter, I was trying to get information relative to if all the wire leads were dedicated or not. I didn't need to ask about the rear speakers because as general rule, you do the frequency dividing one way or the other in a factory/OEM setup. My suggestions are based on a lot of experience, not just conjecture. The question then becomes, are the wires dedicated frequency/speaker dependant, electronically crossed or passively using an inline dividing network (crossover). If it's electronic as the video suggest it might be, then run the bass wire to the bass driver and the tweeter wire to the tweeter. The fact that a tweeter is connected to the woofer chassis, coaxially mounted to the pole piece, mounted somewhere else, mounted across the grill, etc. is not the relevant issue. If as the commentator in the vid is correct and the amp is doing the frequency dividing work, then yes, wire the bass wires to the bass drivers and the tweeter wires to the tweeters. In the drawing I provided, you would just snip the wire coming out of that magnet and connect directly to the tweeter wire feed from the amp bypassing the cap (which you could just tape off or remove altogether) and the other wire to the woofer. If a coaxial speaker has no cap inline it will have a separate dedicated connection on the bass driver frame. Wire it up respective of which goes to which - done.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

OKay, I watched the entire video. The guy uses terminology that probably is confusing also regarding a myriad of terms that many of us in here take for granted. He indicates that the tweeter and woofer have separate leads (input connection wires) so it goes back to what I said in closing. Just wire the woofers and tweeters respective of the wires used prior, you should be good to go.

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

If you do

think he is pretty clear in stating what the exact issue is and showing that he has to clip the tweeter wires from the coaxial speaker so they can be run into the 2 wires on the pigtail above that carry the tweeter signal, while running the other 2 wires from the pigtail to the main connectors on the coaxial.

If you do not want to clip your original harnesses, you can use these. Or they at least show the speaker polarity.

 

[BenH]

OKay, I watched the entire video. The guy uses terminology that probably is confusing also regarding a myriad of terms that many of us in here take for granted. He indicates that the tweeter and woofer have separate leads (input connection wires) so it goes back to what I said in closing. Just wire the woofers and tweeters respective of the wires used prior, you should be good to go.

Thanks. All your caveats above are well taken and appreciated - I know you can't know everything about every vehicle which is why I was so focused on having you review the data I found by people working on them directly. I did believe both the video and the blog post were correct and it is what I came here with (and to other sources). The guy at the first audio store I went to also just thought he was going to drop the coaxial in and wire two wires, and when I went back and explained the issue he first seemed in denial and then confused. Other stores when I mentioned this did state I'd lose some bands if I just wired the coaxial straight and others acknowledged clipping the tweeter wires as shown in the blog post is correct.

I'm glad I have confirmation now from someone I was able to have a conversation about it with. I think that my only concern now is which speaker to use. I am edging towards the Alpine SPE-6090 he uses in the video because he says they work well and they are affordable. However I am still concerned a bit about the impedance because it looks like those are 4 ohm speakers. However when I try to search on google I see some posts saying 2 and some saying 4. Or it is listed like 2/4.
I'm curious...if my current speakers are 2ohm rated doesn't that mean that each one is? i.e. The midrange and the tweeter?
So if a coaxial is rated at 4 ohm, but I am clipping the wires to run each separate, doesn't that then lower the impedance for each one individually? IOW, each coaxial speaker is 2 ohm, but when wired together they are 4? Or is that not how it works?

There is the possibility I need to replace the front door speakers as well, so putting in 4ohms in both locations may be problematic for volume levels. If you think these Alpine's are a problem, I'd really like to find a good 2 ohm recommendation for the midrange 6x9. Again I still have 2 main options:

1) Get the coaxial like we're talking about and clip the tweeters and run 4 wires independently.
2) Get just a component 6x9 mid and use the existing tweeter in the bracket. Run the wires from each similar to how they are now. The main problem here is the possibility my tweeter bracket doesn't fit well on top of the new mid.

I'm still going to try and refoam one more time, but if that fails I'll have to go with one of these options.

 

[BenH]

If you do

If you do not want to clip your original harnesses, you can use these. Or they at least show the speaker polarity.

Sadly I can't go with those. If you look at them they have looped the wires so they are only 2 wires coming out. These would only be used with the standard OEM system which has only a mid in the rear. They won't work with the premium JBL system which needs the 4 wires.

I've looked high and low for a 4 wire version and can't find it. I suppose I could try to rewire these to fix them, but I don't know the type of connectors and how to recrimp them solidly inside. I suppose I could just snip them and solder another wire onto them as well. This might be an option and would allow me to try and re-sell my current speakers for someone else that might need a working one.

Just in case, so I have the knowledge if I need it. My only experience with speakers really in general is my home surround systems. I know speaker wires (in this scenario) technically carry electricity, but it is low voltage and won't harm you when you touch it. But these wires come from an amp. Are they dangerous to touch when the system is on? If I needed to splice new wires in there am I using standard speaker wire or electrical wire. And is there a common awg that these wires are?

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

I suppose I could just snip them

My thoughts exactly. Using a nail clipper to get the loop as long as possible and splicing onto it.

And is there a common awg that these wires are?

14 AWG is more than enough.

 

[BenH]

My thoughts exactly. Using a nail clipper to get the loop as long as possible and splicing onto it.

14 AWG is more than enough.

Thanks.. do I have to differentiate between speaker wire or electrical wiring here? Or any 14 gauge wiring is fine?