Need opinion on good 3000+ amp

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

How do you think making some crazy quad 4 ohm coil underhung driver would affect things? Each "coil" would have a low ish inductance, and you could wire it to 1ohm.

The smaller the coil the lower the inductance, if you suppose that matters. The other issue is there's likely a lot more that goes into speaker design and I think most speakers that are underhung are build from the motor up with that goal.

I'm sure you can frankenstein whatever you like (if you could find a coil that would fit), but now you're trying to second guess Thilo Stompler who has a solid track record of building good sounding subs.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Taramps seem to be a solid design. That’s one of the amps that just seems to work compared to others, but only from what I’ve seen.



I get that. Idk why you keep saying that over and over. Are you saying the way the amp is wired internally has no effect on output impedance? What am I saying that’s actually wrong? Output impedance on the amp changes the way the energy flows internally in the amp, and so does the circuitry pathways in the full vs half bridge design. Effective damping changes with frequency. If your sub tries to unload into mosfets with a full bridge, where a half bridge can seemingly use the larger capacity power supply system, does that not change the nature of the damping factor? Is it not easier to overload a mosfet than a power supply, especially on the cheapest made amps/individual components with both half and full bridges?

SIA's are the best full bridge amps currently on the market. I've ran Taramps, SFB, and the SIA line of full bridge amps. Taram0s is better than the SFB but not better than the SFB IMO.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Wouldn’t both the output impedance and speaker impedance change independently of each other while the sub is playing music?

NO. The output impedance is a static number it does not change, and the "damping factor" is just a published spec that's the ratio of that output impedance to some speaker load at a certain frequency. Again, if you feel a very high ratio is important you should not even consider running .5 ohm or even 1 ohm.

Is 1000 damping factor an indicator of that JL amp’s quality?

No and that spec is probably an exaggeration but they're relying on people who have no idea what any of this means expecting to see high damping factor and super low THD if they're going to fork over a dollar a watt, by all account this damping factor meme is a holdover from the 1970s used to hype solid state.

More reading for anybody who actually wants to learn about the subject:

Damping Factor: Effects On System Response

Much ballyhoo surrounds the concept of "damping factor." It's been suggested that it accounts for the alleged "dramatic differences" in sound between tube and solid state amplifiers. The claim is

www.audioholics.com

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

What happened to the 3,000 watt amp thread?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

The smaller the coil the lower the inductance, if you suppose that matters. The other issue is there's likely a lot more that goes into speaker design and I think most speakers that are underhung are build from the motor up with that goal.

I'm sure you can frankenstein whatever you like (if you could find a coil that would fit), but now you're trying to second guess Thilo Stompler who has a solid track record of building good sounding subs.

Thilo is a bad ass for sure. We already know that the aura NRT motors perform very well in an underhung design. My main theory in this regard would be making the lowest inductance coil possible that can still handle high power. This would just be an extrapolation of information we already have. By wiring a coil in paralell to 1 ohm you keep the low inductance of the "individual" coils and then running multiple subs in series, you could achieve a low inductance and high Impedance substage that can handle gobs of power. Pair this with an "audiophile" high slew-rate, high damping factor unicorn hair amp and test it against a cheap China powerhouse.

Matt

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Thilo is a bad ass for sure. We already know that the aura NRT motors perform very well in an underhung design. My main theory in this regard would be making the lowest inductance coil possible that can still handle high power. This would just be an extrapolation of information we already have. By wiring a coil in paralell to 1 ohm you keep the low inductance of the "individual" coils and then running multiple subs in series, you could achieve a low inductance and high Impedance substage that can handle gobs of power. Pair this with an "audiophile" high slew-rate, high damping factor unicorn hair amp and test it against a cheap China powerhouse.

Matt

Again, I'm not really sold on Le being of any value in considering a high powered subwoofer.

Dan Wiggins wrote a bit about the issue in a paper about cone speed but his discussion was involving a 6.5" midrange and 4000hz. I suspect low Le is more of an issue with full range drivers.

I'm struggling to find the Le value for a well known underhung woofer with which we can compare to some coils I have on hand. The question becomes if the difference is only say 1/4 ohm at 100hz between a very small wind width underhung type coil and a beefy overhung, will there be any measurable or audible difference within the intended bandwidth? Can you dig up the numbers for anything you know of with a 3" coil? Be sure to specify which coil configuration they measure it.

Do read the link to the audioholics damping factor discussion. The math shows that the difference between damping factor of 2000 and 10 is virtually nothing measurable and very probably not audible.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

NO. The output impedance is a static number it does not change, and the "damping factor" is just a published spec that's the ratio of that output impedance to some speaker load at a certain frequency. Again, if you feel a very high ratio is important you should not even consider running .5 ohm or even 1 ohm.


No and that spec is probably an exaggeration but they're relying on people who have no idea what any of this means expecting to see high damping factor and super low THD if they're going to fork over a dollar a watt, by all account this damping factor meme is a holdover from the 1970s used to hype solid state.

More reading for anybody who actually wants to learn about the subject:

Damping Factor: Effects On System Response

Much ballyhoo surrounds the concept of "damping factor." It's been suggested that it accounts for the alleged "dramatic differences" in sound between tube and solid state amplifiers. The claim is

www.audioholics.com

Yes, you told the definition of damping factor that’s the technical definition over and over again. That’s not complicated. It’s basic math to calculate the total damping factor; I think I got it, brah. It’s not hard. That’s not what music is. Nor have I considered running at .5 ohm, nor have I said running high ratio is important to me. Once again, you’re being a jerk and completely ignoring the context in why I said that in the first place. There isn’t 1 damping factor when you’re playing a song with multiple frequencies- the whole system acts as an acoustical/electrical circuit, and the state and stress on everything changes with frequency, especially with lower bass frequencies. If all amps are measured at the same specs to figure damping factor, then that fundamentally means the amp is able to control the woofer better. Different frequencies being played through the amp matter, different woofer styles matter, and the total enclosure/environment style matter, as well, and they all combine into woofer control. I’ve seen/heard/intentionally studied it in real life. I’ve seen and heard from customers about the cheaper and lower damping factor rated amps **** out and not play well for people. You keep taking the way I’m saying this out of context, and it seems lazy. I’ve been studying this for almost a decade.

It makes literally zero sense that damping factor doesn’t make some difference, and that’s the way you seem to be treating it. There’s plenty of evidence. And all I’m saying is damping factor matters some, and you’re being a real jerk about it, keep saying the same thing over and over again, and you keep pointing to other people’s writing only and giving definitions that anyone can look up if they search engine damping factor. With the knowledge that you have, it’s amazing how much of a-hole you are about it.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

So which 3K amp do you guys recommend? Just wondering?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Taramps seem to be a solid design. That’s one of the amps that just seems to work compared to others, but only from what I’ve seen.



I get that. Idk why you keep saying that over and over. Are you saying the way the amp is wired internally has no effect on output impedance? What am I saying that’s actually wrong? Output impedance on the amp changes the way the energy flows internally in the amp, and so does the circuitry pathways in the full vs half bridge design. Effective damping changes with frequency. If your sub tries to unload into mosfets with a full bridge, where a half bridge can seemingly use the larger capacity power supply system, does that not change the nature of the damping factor? Is it not easier to overload a mosfet than a power supply, especially on the cheapest made amps/individual components with both half and full bridges?

I think the issue here is in how everyone thinks damping factor works or is calculated and/or how it's relevant. Come with me on a journey of fucked up, redneck, Basshead, science!

CRAZY SIMPLE EXAMPLE BELOW, I'VE GOT MY FIRE SUIT ON:

OK, damping factor can most easily be compared to a Macpherson strut. It is a spring of a specific weight, with a matched damper to control the movement of that spring under compression and extension. The subwoofer is compressing and extending the strut, and in turn the strut is simply taking that energy and dissipating it as heat.

The issue with damping factor is this: a damping factor of 10 is not 10x "stiffer" than a damping factor of 1. I'm not going to get into specific ratios, but if you change the spring rate/damping rate on your strut by just 10 percent you will feel a difference. You can increase the damping factor by a factor of 1,000 percent and electrically(or electromechanically) there will be very little difference.

Now, how do you measure damping factor from an electrical standpoint? Well, as most of us know Impedance is affected by frequency when we are talking about speakers. An amplifiers output Impedance is ALSO affected by frequency. So damping factor should be a graph, just like high-end drivers provide an Impedance graph.

Here's where things get fun; what happens when you try to calculate this formula(no, it's the real formula, just work with me here):

DF= 1/2({A-imp/S-imp}/4)

DF is the amplifiers damping factor.
A-imp is the amplifiers output Impedance
S-imp is the speakers Impedance.

What values do we use for A and S-imp? Nominal values? The value of each at a specific frequency? Do we substitute a speaker for a nominal resistive load?

There are dozens of possible variables you can alter to change your result and at least one of those variables(resistive load vs speaker load) would completely invalidate your test results. Whatever company claiming damping factor would need to specify how exactly they calculate their damping factor for it to have any relevance.

Last example I promise....

If we go back to our strut example and just imagine it as one single unit instead of spring rate and damping rate we can rock this *****.

Let's imagine that the strut is attached to a device that produces a sine wave in linear form. Obviously a stiffer strut would be beneficial. When you push on the strut to move the speaker you don't want it to compress, and when you pull back you don't want it to extend. But here is the caveat: the strut isn't pushing or pulling the speaker. The strut isn't actually touching the speaker at all. The strut is pushing on a button that turns a freaking Lazer beam on or off that makes the speaker move.

This is a good video that relates to the practical example I'm trying to make:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0&ved=2ahUKEwjTivzqzpX5AhVpRDABHf8yD24QwqsBegQIEBAB&usg=AOvVaw0BPSKgE2c3jijSM8rgTQy7

Electroboom also made a video responding to this one that I'll try to find and post tomorrow. He uses like 1000 meters of Cat-5 cable to perform the experiment.

The key takeaway here is thst damping factor, while "measurable and quantifiable", is meaningless in any practical sense. Yes, it will have some effect but so will a pinhole drilled in an enclosure. With sensitive enough equipment you could measure an effect, but did it really make a damn difference?

Matt

Edit: also any amp that is letting the voltage/current induced by the coil movement back into the mosfet or anything beyond the output filters has MUCH bigger design issues than anything else. Amplifiers are by their very nature driving the speaker. Even if a sub unloads in a ported enclosure, the motor/suspension is what's controlling the cone/coil not the amplifier. You can't give a mouse a toothpick and expect it to stop a semi.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

But you'd need some funky pups to handle the all power

 

[Beatin' 10+ year member]

View attachment 40610
Buy you'd need some funky pups to handle the all power

Oh hell yeah now you talkin. Motherfuckin BOSS. Get two and make sure they're STRAPPED. Each one with two alts STRAPPED, batteries STRAPPED, EVERYTHING STRAPPED on BOSS. We're not fukkin around.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I think the issue here is in how everyone thinks damping factor works or is calculated and/or how it's relevant. Come with me on a journey of fucked up, redneck, Basshead, science!

CRAZY SIMPLE EXAMPLE BELOW, I'VE GOT MY FIRE SUIT ON:

OK, damping factor can most easily be compared to a Macpherson strut. It is a spring of a specific weight, with a matched damper to control the movement of that spring under compression and extension. The subwoofer is compressing and extending the strut, and in turn the strut is simply taking that energy and dissipating it as heat.

The issue with damping factor is this: a damping factor of 10 is not 10x "stiffer" than a damping factor of 1. I'm not going to get into specific ratios, but if you change the spring rate/damping rate on your strut by just 10 percent you will feel a difference. You can increase the damping factor by a factor of 1,000 percent and electrically(or electromechanically) there will be very little difference.

Now, how do you measure damping factor from an electrical standpoint? Well, as most of us know Impedance is affected by frequency when we are talking about speakers. An amplifiers output Impedance is ALSO affected by frequency. So damping factor should be a graph, just like high-end drivers provide an Impedance graph.

Here's where things get fun; what happens when you try to calculate this formula(no, it's the real formula, just work with me here):

DF= 1/2({A-imp/S-imp}/4)

DF is the amplifiers damping factor.
A-imp is the amplifiers output Impedance
S-imp is the speakers Impedance.

What values do we use for A and S-imp? Nominal values? The value of each at a specific frequency? Do we substitute a speaker for a nominal resistive load?

There are dozens of possible variables you can alter to change your result and at least one of those variables(resistive load vs speaker load) would completely invalidate your test results. Whatever company claiming damping factor would need to specify how exactly they calculate their damping factor for it to have any relevance.

Last example I promise....

If we go back to our strut example and just imagine it as one single unit instead of spring rate and damping rate we can rock this *****.

Let's imagine that the strut is attached to a device that produces a sine wave in linear form. Obviously a stiffer strut would be beneficial. When you push on the strut to move the speaker you don't want it to compress, and when you pull back you don't want it to extend. But here is the caveat: the strut isn't pushing or pulling the speaker. The strut isn't actually touching the speaker at all. The strut is pushing on a button that turns a freaking Lazer beam on or off that makes the speaker move.

This is a good video that relates to the practical example I'm trying to make:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0&ved=2ahUKEwjTivzqzpX5AhVpRDABHf8yD24QwqsBegQIEBAB&usg=AOvVaw0BPSKgE2c3jijSM8rgTQy7

Electroboom also made a video responding to this one that I'll try to find and post tomorrow. He uses like 1000 meters of Cat-5 cable to perform the experiment.

The key takeaway here is thst damping factor, while "measurable and quantifiable", is meaningless in any practical sense. Yes, it will have some effect but so will a pinhole drilled in an enclosure. With sensitive enough equipment you could measure an effect, but did it really make a damn difference?

Matt

Edit: also any amp that is letting the voltage/current induced by the coil movement back into the mosfet or anything beyond the output filters has MUCH bigger design issues than anything else. Amplifiers are by their very nature driving the speaker. Even if a sub unloads in a ported enclosure, the motor/suspension is what's controlling the cone/coil not the amplifier. You can't give a mouse a toothpick and expect it to stop a semi.

Yes. I’m not disagreeing with that. All I’m saying is that it makes some difference, and there’s a level of damping factor that tends to be correlated with cheap amps, and the damping factor tends to rise some with price. You can go study that for yourself; I made a large study of it with amps even within the same company. My advice was to not get the cheapest amp, and you can usually indicate that with a very low damping factor. Some amps under some circumstances don’t play right, and it’s complicated, because you have your different 12v power different supplies, boxes, environments, final loads people are running, woofer design, etc. I’ve compared the amp lines from the same companies, and the less expensive amps tends to have a lower damping factor than the more expensive amps from the same company.

Like with Sundown- the Salt’s have a higher damping factor. I know people who’ve run the SIA’s, didn’t like them, and went back to the SALTs, and their problems magically disappeared (like cutting off under stress or sounding like doodoo on lows). And some of those we are talking about is people playing in the low 20 Hz region here, but I’ve experienced this with certain systems under certain circumstances when the amp would sound like **** or cut off due to excessive woofer movement, and the bass wasn’t that low. I’m not saying it’s a good thing that the amps do that or subs, but I learned what damping was from comparing amps and hearing them vs actually a lab test. I installed for a while at a shop and was involved with a ton of systems (+from box designing and building), and I didn’t even know what damping factor meant. I just knew it was a number. I still noticed that amps with higher ratings still tended to work better under stress with subs, and there’s a lot of variables to that. I actually started looking into this after all these experiences. Many people define damping factor as the ability for an amp to control or stop a woofer- and that’s literally what I learned from hearing so many systems before I even knew the definition of damping factor. I saw it acted out in real life, and have for a decade, so I just can’t see how it doesn’t matter some. We can respectfully debate it, but I’m not trying to be treated like a clown over this, especially with how my claims have been over exaggerated and replied to out of context (not by you).

And to your point of output filters: full bridges try to run as little output filtering as possible due to the mosfet layout vs half bridge, and that seems to be why these cloned and seemingly made cheap-as-possible full bridge amps have problems, is because they don’t have the same amount of output filtration. I mean that’s why I posted this:

^^^That’s literally why half bridge amps tend to come with more output filtration (they have to to avoid noise), and half bridges can dump the excessive energization (from floppy subs) in the amp into the power supply, to some extent, where a full bridge has to run all the woofer current through the mosfets, and that’s going to be harder on the amp, fundamentally, IMO. (especially if it’s a cheap Chinese turd trying to play lows)

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

It’s basic math to calculate the total damping factor

And the math over at the audioholics link shows that the difference between DF of 10 and of 10,000 is virtually nil and that DF of even 1 shouldn't be audible. Yet you still prattle on trying to lump more things into this because you can never admit you were wrong about anything.

Nor have I considered running at .5 ohm

And yet you bring it up here:

I wanna see a .5 ohm test on a 4” 4500w coil woofer

and here:

Then, you can’t run at .5 ohms vs 1 ohm, because you got a shitty Chinese full bridge. I know some people who could run .25 ohms and switched to 1 ohm

I’ve seen and heard from customers about the cheaper and lower damping factor rated amps

So you keep saying but when I asked to give us details about which amps, how you tested them, and how you determined that damping factor was the issue you have failed to give any details. Could it be you're just making **** up?

nor have I said running high ratio is important to me.

So is a high damping factor not important now?

There’s plenty of evidence.

So let's see some of it. So far I've posted a couple links from credible sources saying it's largely meaningless for practical purposes which post the math to prove it, but I'll consider any evidence to the contrary you have.

definitions that anyone can look up if they search engine damping factor.

And yet you still either can't wrap your head around what this means, or you realize that it isn't all that important but you can't bear the fact that you were wrong to suggest it's something to consider when purchasing an amp so you've spent 10 pages trying to dance around this.

there’s a level of damping factor that tends to be correlated with cheap amps, and the damping factor tends to rise some with price. You can go study that for yourself; I made a large study of it with amps even within the same company.

SO post up a list of amps, their prices, and their published damping factors. Post up a few examples of solid state amps on the market right now with output impedance high enough to make any difference.

the amp would sound like **** or cut off due to excessive woofer movement

What does this have to do with output impedance?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Yes. I’m not disagreeing with that. All I’m saying is that it makes some difference, and there’s a level of damping factor that tends to be correlated with cheap amps, and the damping factor tends to rise some with price. You can go study that for yourself; I made a large study of it with amps even within the same company. My advice was to not get the cheapest amp, and you can usually indicate that with a very low damping factor. Some amps under some circumstances don’t play right, and it’s complicated, because you have your different 12v power different supplies, boxes, environments, final loads people are running, woofer design, etc. I’ve compared the amp lines from the same companies, and the less expensive amps tends to have a lower damping factor than the more expensive amps from the same company.

Like with Sundown- the Salt’s have a higher damping factor. I know people who’ve run the SIA’s, didn’t like them, and went back to the SALTs, and their problems magically disappeared (like cutting off under stress or sounding like doodoo on lows). And some of those we are talking about is people playing in the low 20 Hz region here, but I’ve experienced this with certain systems under certain circumstances when the amp would sound like **** or cut off due to excessive woofer movement, and the bass wasn’t that low. I’m not saying it’s a good thing that the amps do that or subs, but I learned what damping was from comparing amps and hearing them vs actually a lab test. I installed for a while at a shop and was involved with a ton of systems (+from box designing and building), and I didn’t even know what damping factor meant. I just knew it was a number. I still noticed that amps with higher ratings still tended to work better under stress with subs, and there’s a lot of variables to that. I actually started looking into this after all these experiences. Many people define damping factor as the ability for an amp to control or stop a woofer- and that’s literally what I learned from hearing so many systems before I even knew the definition of damping factor. I saw it acted out in real life, and have for a decade, so I just can’t see how it doesn’t matter some. We can respectfully debate it, but I’m not trying to be treated like a clown over this, especially with how my claims have been over exaggerated and replied to out of context (not by you).

And to your point of output filters: full bridges try to run as little output filtering as possible due to the mosfet layout vs half bridge, and that seems to be why these cloned and seemingly made cheap-as-possible full bridge amps have problems, is because they don’t have the same amount of output filtration. I mean that’s why I posted this:

View attachment 40625

^^^That’s literally why half bridge amps tend to come with more output filtration (they have to to avoid noise), and half bridges can dump the excessive energization (from floppy subs) in the amp into the power supply, to some extent, where a full bridge has to run all the woofer current through the mosfets, and that’s going to be harder on the amp, fundamentally, IMO. (especially if it’s a cheap Chinese turd trying to play lows)

Damping factor is much less about "cheap vs expensive" amp and more about design. The Helix Msix I ran had a damping factor of 100 and its a 500 dollar amp from an "audiophile" company.

Cheap vs expensive amp isn't exactly a fair comparison because "cheap" mosfets are technically the same as "expensive" mosfets. The difference is batching. Higher end amps buy rated batches of mosfets so thst their specs are closely matched. This let's the amp run cooler and perform better while also increasing reliability.

When you have paired components with different values, one will work harder than the other and that causes problems. The SIA series of amps is a Chinese build house special. The salt series was designed specifically for Jacob. The salt is just a better amp all around.

All in all damping factor is a spec like "max power" in my eyes. I don't rely on the amp to control my subs, nor should anyone else. More expensive amps are designed better and built with closer matched components that make them work better. Alot of the potential issues you have brought up could just come down to running an amp too close to its limits.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm not trying to change your opinion. Damping factor could be one way to quantify a better alp, but in my experience it's just another number slapped on a box.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I’m not dancing around anything. With .5 I already explained is that sometimes you have that load and you need an amp to power it, like if someone wants more power but doesn’t want to change out their 4 18's in their b-pillar wall that are already at a final .5 ohm setup. That’s a lot of changing, so maybe they want to just buy a capable amp for that situation, instead of redoing everything. Changing a ton of woofers out is more expensive than buying an amp that has a good enough output impedance to perform properly under that load for what stresses the individual is going to put on the amp. There’s a ton of reasons why that can happen, not that anyone or I is aiming for that. I got a hella good deal for 2 DC XL 18’s at $300 for both, and better believe I ran those at 1.4 strapped, because that’s what I could afford. My amps sometimes went into a quick protect on punches or low notes, but maybe if I had a higher damping factor they wouldn’t have. They were good amps, ED 9.1’s.

To be clear, I understand your point, but I think the damping factor numbers represents something more complicated in real life situations than just the ratio of impedances. I know that’s the technical definition, but IF all amps were measured to the same standard, then there has to be a reason WHY damping factor changes between amps when the load and frequency of testing all remain the same- which we don’t know exactly how each amp makes it’s number, and I wish they’d be more specific on amp specs (which Hz and ohm they measured at). We’d have an easier time talking about this, lol.

I’ve been comparing amps for a decade or better- I would encourage anyone who wants to figure if they think damping factor does or doesn’t matter as some sort of quality indicator to study all the amp specs themselves to figure out how to make their own smart choices in purchases<- that’s how I arrived here, whether right or wrong or sorta right and sorta wrong. I’m not sure I can accurately or simply post up all those comparisons + the board type and have it easily digestible. And sound is subjective, so how amps sound is going to be, as well.

If a woofer moves excessively, and damping factor is known as the ability for an amp to stop or control a woofer’s movement, then wouldn’t logic say an amp with a higher damping factor than another might help control subs in some situations?

Let me ask you this- what internal factors of an amp determine output impedance (seemingly much to do with the output filtration)? Do capacitors have anything to do with the output impedance? (Genuinely asking)

If a cheap Chinese full bridge runs as minimal as possible output filtration due to it being a full bridge with inherently lower noise problems, wouldn’t that possibly be why some of these cheap full bridge amps have issues? It seems logical to me that companies making cheap full bridges would leave out as much output filtration as possible to save money, and output filtration seems to have to do with output impedance and damping factor, and that seems logical as to why many cheap full bridges have a damping factor of ~100 or something. Like I’ve said, from my customers that like lows, the “made in mass” full bridges had issues cutting in and out on certain low notes and transitions (wild changes in xmax or extreme excursion situations), and that’s related to the current the sub is trying to push back into the amp, and damping factor is the rating that shows an amps ability to handle that, to whatever extent that stat is accurate.

I’m not saying it’s the end all be all or it’s accurate in every situation, I’d just like to have a genuine convo about it, rather than being made fun of for it. We’re all hear to learn, and it’s not ridiculous to ask these questions, or for people to state their opinions. I’m literally just trying to encourage people to buy good amps they’ll be happy with for what they’re doing.