you were all right!!

[loud1500 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/*******.gif.a649d21efc0d1fd4890a6428166586c1.gif

 

[pickup1 5,000+ posts]

please just run the 4-10's,or get 4 13's!

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

wow //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif ... this is quite rediculous... the thing i find most interesting is that none of you have agrued a valid point and given me a technical reason i'm wrong only personal attacks and such... that is, by the way, why i keep posting... because none of you have heard or seen my system... how could you make conclusions about it? so far the only thing i can see that i have done wrong is not agree with some of you... but hey remember you are the brilliant car audio expert who thinks it a good idea to "call people names" over the internet... take a good think about it... i'm supposed to take advise and believe someone that "flames" and defames people that they have never met before? mabe i'm wrong about everything... but even if i was, i have no reason to listen to someone who gives an immature personal response, instead of a real valid response to explain why i am wrong...

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

The energy never stops. That would violate the first law of thermodynamics. The energy of the wave still exists, it is just not apparent due to the phase shift in some frames of reference.
The only way two signals can be in perfect phase in three dimensions is if they originated at the same point, had the same frequency, amplitude, etc. but a 180 degree phase shift (****ed near impossible). This is why a line array would not have cancellation of a given frequency produced by two drivers seperated only in the vertical plane. Obviously this only works in two dimensions, but since we don't move up and down much while listening, it works once we find a good fixed spot in the vertical plane as our listening position.

In any environment there will be cancellation, even between different frequencies. A 40 hz wave and a 60 hz wave are going to create interference and even worse, they will create an oscillation between constructive and destructive interference (lound and soft). Ever hear a guitar that is slightly out of tune? You can hear it oscillating when two strings are plucked and allowed to ring.

Here, do some light reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_interference

There are better sources for info (like a physics textbook) but wikipedia doesn't do too bad of a job.

I'm off to go fiberglass, pm me if you have any further questions.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif that is what i was trying to say sry for the confusion... i believe that when a wave cancels it changes from kinetic to potential energy in the air molecules?? so that the energy is not "stopping" as you said, but instead changing form... so that, if you were to isolate a point in time where 2 waves cancelled and compare it to a point where there was no wave at all, the 2 points would be identical... of course this is only practically possible in 2 dimensions... that might be wrong, i never really thought about it... but reguardless i hope you keep posting and please don't stoop to the level that some on here do... you seem to have alot of knowledge and so far are one of about 3 on here that hasn't let your ego get in the way of shareing that knowledge... thanks! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif

EDIT: after thinking about it i think its more like one wave is exerting a force (kinetic energy) and the other (out of phase) wave is exerting opposite but equal force on the existing wave returning it to rest... which i guess IS potential energy

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Thank god for google......

 

[smd4life 5,000+ posts]

no 1 1000w amp, and one 500 watt... that would equal 1500 not 1000

you will never see 1500 watts out of your amps

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

take a good think about it...

I'm curious as to how I could take a good "think". I haven't done one of those in a long time.

obviously grammar is not your forte.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif that is what i was trying to say sry for the confusion... i believe that when a wave cancels it changes from kinetic to potential energy in the air molecules?? so that the energy is not "stopping" as you said, but instead changing form... so that, if you were to isolate a point in time where 2 waves cancelled and compare it to a point where there was no wave at all, the 2 points would be identical... of course this is only practically possible in 2 dimensions... that might be wrong, i never really thought about it... but reguardless i hope you keep posting and please don't stoop to the level that some on here do... you seem to have alot of knowledge and so far are one of about 3 on here that hasn't let your ego get in the way of shareing that knowledge... thanks! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif
EDIT: after thinking about it i think its more like one wave is exerting a force (kinetic energy) and the other (out of phase) wave is exerting opposite but equal force on the existing wave returning it to rest... which i guess IS potential energy

Please stop trying to sound intelligent. It's not working.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

everyone told me i'd have cancellation with a multi sub system... i didn't believe... so today i got the notion to hook up a 500 watt amp to my system untill i get the other 1000/1... and you were all right cancellation bit me in the *** for 5 hours today!!! i did so much to try to get rid of it but no luck! i set the filters to seperate frequencies even tried putting the 10's on a low high pass... after i was about to give up all the sudden i desided to reverse the polarity on one of them and guess what happened? NO MORE CANCELLATION!!!! infact after playing with it i don't even want the subs playing different frequencies they sound better with the range to be different but still sound amazing when playing the same frequencies where they over-lap... my system is no-doubt louder than my buddy's from school 4 12" L5's... even he said so, but we are going to get them both metered next week to see for shure
EDIT: allthough i think he is underpowering them i think i could make his louder if i messed with the settings but they are sealed

I read this post and my first thought was: You said it sounded good before the switch too. If you gave a false representation of how your system sounded before, why should we believe you KNOW it sounds 'good' now? Frankly, I dont believe you know.

I read your technical descriptions of wave interaction and think this is the guy who 1) tried a multi-sized-sub setup even with all his 'knowledge' of cancellation and 2) is now trying to defend the decision... technically. Its amazingly silly. While I agree with helo, you are stunningly annoying, at best, I still have to admit I find your worthless banter entertaining. Please, dont leave or anything, k?

This thread reminds me of the one a few days ago where the kid stuck 6x9's under his front seats, with no enclosures or even baffles, and then insisted it sounded 'good' too.

My favorite part was when you said your intention here is to go for SQ. Rock on dude.

 

[bryce-man 10+ year member]

i just have to suggest one thing

try just the 10s

then try just the 13

then try the whole thing

set up the same way each time

... just to see whats what

i mean you have all the stuff.. why not try something diff that may/may not be louder/crisper

good luck fighting off the elders

lol

peace

 

[envengineer 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/iagree.gif.15d6c075ee8d3913ba26866d06993068.gif that is what i was trying to say sry for the confusion... i believe that when a wave cancels it changes from kinetic to potential energy in the air molecules?? so that the energy is not "stopping" as you said, but instead changing form... so that, if you were to isolate a point in time where 2 waves cancelled and compare it to a point where there was no wave at all, the 2 points would be identical... of course this is only practically possible in 2 dimensions... that might be wrong, i never really thought about it... but reguardless i hope you keep posting and please don't stoop to the level that some on here do... you seem to have alot of knowledge and so far are one of about 3 on here that hasn't let your ego get in the way of shareing that knowledge... thanks! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif
EDIT: after thinking about it i think its more like one wave is exerting a force (kinetic energy) and the other (out of phase) wave is exerting opposite but equal force on the existing wave returning it to rest... which i guess IS potential energy

When you have distructive interference there is absolutely no change in the energy form (at least not due to the interference). Let me define an important physics term in a car audio context, FRAME OF REFERENCE: The point in space/time from which we observe a system (aka, the location of your eardrums in this example). The only thing that matters is what occurs from your ear's FOR because that is the only way you can observe the system.

So when you talk about equal and opposite forces you are about 15% right. The waves do not act on eachother in the way you are mentioning. Think about it from the FOR of your eardrum, or a microphone. At certain locations, they will be observing one wave at its crest and one wave at its trough, this is where you have a total force (air pressure) input of zero to the transducer (eardrum or mic).

Also, your last sentence is incorrect in several ways, but especially the conclusion where you describe something at rest as having potential energy. Returning something to rest does not mean it has potential energy (a body at rest will remain at rest until acted upon by an outside force - half of Newton's first law). Potential energy is when a car is at the top of a ramp. The energy exists because of a force that acts upon the object (gravity for example).

 

[Beerdrnkr 5,000+ posts]

wow //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif ... this is quite rediculous... the thing i find most interesting is that none of you have agrued a valid point and given me a technical reason i'm wrong only personal attacks and such... that is, by the way, why i keep posting... because none of you have heard or seen my system... how could you make conclusions about it? so far the only thing i can see that i have done wrong is not agree with some of you... but hey remember you are the brilliant car audio expert who thinks it a good idea to "call people names" over the internet... take a good think about it... i'm supposed to take advise and believe someone that "flames" and defames people that they have never met before? mabe i'm wrong about everything... but even if i was, i have no reason to listen to someone who gives an immature personal response, instead of a real valid response to explain why i am wrong...

Can someone in the North Carolina area just listen to his system and tell him it sounds like ***?

 

[Jep772 10+ year member]

get on the interstate, turn the radio up full balls, floor it and smash into the back of a dumptruck.. you should get some real nice numbers then

 

[Railrocker 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif :laugh:
Says the 06'er.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

**** 03'er. I swear mang.

Must be an odd year thing. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

I read this post and my first thought was: You said it sounded good before the switch too. If you gave a false representation of how your system sounded before, why should we believe you KNOW it sounds 'good' now? Frankly, I dont believe you know.
I read your technical descriptions of wave interaction and think this is the guy who 1) tried a multi-sized-sub setup even with all his 'knowledge' of cancellation and 2) is now trying to defend the decision... technically. Its amazingly silly. While I agree with helo, you are stunningly annoying, at best, I still have to admit I find your worthless banter entertaining. Please, dont leave or anything, k?

This thread reminds me of the one a few days ago where the kid stuck 6x9's under his front seats, with no enclosures or even baffles, and then insisted it sounded 'good' too.

My favorite part was when you said your intention here is to go for SQ. Rock on dude.

before the switch, i only had the 4 10's hooked up and it did sound good, as far as my understanding of cancelling sound waves, it tells me that it won't be a big problem with subs