WOOFER PLACEMENT IN 3 WAY SYSTEM

[Blackout67]

My door speaker cutout is only 5.1 inches. Most of the good aftermarket speakers are 5.7-5.7 inches, and the big name aftermarket 5.25s like Kicker, JBL, and Alpine are all over priced and underwhelming with terrible mid bass and below performance even on a 4 channel. Spent $90 on JBL 5 1/4 components and they sound alright I guess but I've heard cheaper coaxial speakers that sound better. Not tryna spend more than $150ish for the whole set up.

Vehicle is a 96 C1500. It has tweeters in the arm rest in the door but I plan on unplugging them cause I like my tweeters in phase with my mids not pointed straight at my face from my arm rest and I really don't feel like setting up another set of components that **** is annoying any time i convince myself to go for em for whatever reason.

Was thinking about going with A nice set of 6x4s in the rear pillars and cross them around 250hz up, then put some Dayton audio 5.25 woofers in the front doors with silicone baffles and CLD sheets, cross them 60hz to 300ish hz for mid bass.

I know you're supposed to have your tweeter as close to and on phase as much as possible to the midwoofer when it's a 2 way component set. Should I expect any weird anomalies or imaging issues by setting up a 3 way like this? Never done a 3 way speaker system (woofer, mid, tweeter)

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[Doxquzme Premium Member]

My door speaker cutout is only 5.1 inches. Most of the good aftermarket speakers are 5.7-5.7 inches, and the big name aftermarket 5.25s like Kicker, JBL, and Alpine are all over priced and underwhelming with terrible mid bass and below performance even on a 4 channel. Spent $90 on JBL 5 1/4 components and they sound alright I guess but I've heard cheaper coaxial speakers that sound better. Not tryna spend more than $150ish for the whole set up.

Vehicle is a 96 C1500. It has tweeters in the arm rest in the door but I plan on unplugging them cause I like my tweeters in phase with my mids not pointed straight at my face from my arm rest and I really don't feel like setting up another set of components that **** is annoying any time i convince myself to go for em for whatever reason.

Was thinking about going with A nice set of 6x4s in the rear pillars and cross them around 250hz up, then put some Dayton audio 5.25 woofers in the front doors with silicone baffles and CLD sheets, cross them 60hz to 300ish hz for mid bass.

I know you're supposed to have your tweeter as close to and on phase as much as possible to the midwoofer when it's a 2 way component set. Should I expect any weird anomalies or imaging issues by setting up a 3 way like this? Never done a 3 way speaker system (woofer, mid, tweeter)

All over the map. What is your objective? A better quality 2-way would be my advize.
What is the amplification?
Will you have to use passive x-overs?

Upper front door = 1 inch tweeters
Lower front door 5.25 to 6.75" midbass driver according to Crutchfield.

Get a good set of comps like these.

NVX XSP65KIT X-Series 250W 6.5" 2-Way Car Audio Speaker w/ Cones and Dome | eBay

Product SKU: 195465 ID: xsp65kit. NVX XSP65KIT. NVX FRING65 6.5" Speaker Baffle Ring Kit. NVX XBAF65 6.5" Speaker Baffle Ring Kit. NVX SDRLR1 Sound Damping Rubber Roller. NVX SDRLR2 Sound Damping Rubber Roller.

www.ebay.com

Tweeters are crisp, smooth, airy and won't insult your hearing in the factory location in the upper doors. Skip the 4x6s and just get good comps. Cabin is not big enough to worry about using the 4x6 openings.

Add an amplifier if you really want it to sound good. 260 x 2 bridged at 4 ohms, that would REALLY make a difference.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PCZBZW5/?tag=caraudiocom-20

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I'm selling a set of those NVX "X" series comps, BNIB, $125 shipped!

 

[Blackout67]

All over the map. What is your objective? A better quality 2-way would be my advize.
What is the amplification?
Will you have to use passive x-overs?

Upper front door = 1 inch tweeters
Lower front door 5.25 to 6.75" midbass driver according to Crutchfield.

Get a good set of comps like these.

NVX XSP65KIT X-Series 250W 6.5" 2-Way Car Audio Speaker w/ Cones and Dome | eBay

Product SKU: 195465 ID: xsp65kit. NVX XSP65KIT. NVX FRING65 6.5" Speaker Baffle Ring Kit. NVX XBAF65 6.5" Speaker Baffle Ring Kit. NVX SDRLR1 Sound Damping Rubber Roller. NVX SDRLR2 Sound Damping Rubber Roller.

www.ebay.com

Tweeters are crisp, smooth, airy and won't insult your hearing in the factory location in the upper doors. Skip the 4x6s and just get good comps. Cabin is not big enough to worry about using the 4x6 openings.

Add an amplifier if you really want it to sound good. 260 x 2 bridged at 4 ohms, that would REALLY make a difference.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PCZBZW5/?tag=caraudiocom-20

I have used NVX in the past and I love them. However those 6.5s will not fit. The only ones that fit fit are the small diameter basket "big name" speakers that will fit. Crutchfield shows my cutout is 5.1 which is tiny and not ideal and I'm not planning on making them larger

I'm trying to get as much cone area from from the mid bass as possible, that is why I was trying to avoid using coaxial for the mid bass driver and because i can Cross the mid bass to whatever I want so I can send more power to it without worrying about distortion from playing up too high.

Components are 100% out of the equation, like I said in OP I hate hooking them up, especially if the tweeter is gonna mount to the door panel.

I have 60-80 watts for each channel depending on ohm rating and planning on running the mid bass on the front channels with LPF mode on around 250hz, with the B pillar speakers running 250hz up

I'm not going for a MECCA comp awards but I listen to a lot of different music so I want to to sound overall balanced. I dont like saturated midbass or bright highs so I usually opt for soft dome tweeters. Will have 1-2 sealed 10 inches. Either 2 NVX VSW 10s or the Recoil Pro 10s

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Not making a lot of sense as you are really limiting the sound potential but lets see.

"I'm trying to get as much cone area from from the mid bass as possible, that is why I was trying to avoid using coaxial for the mid bass driver and because i can Cross the mid bass to whatever I want so I can send more power to it without worrying about distortion from playing up too high."

Not correct. Coaxials have no bearing on the size of the cone. The size of the tweeter that is axially mounted is usually the size of the voicoil so no difference in cone size whatsoever.

With a .5 to .75" MDF riser/adaptor, these would probably fit right in and have great midbass and smooth highs. They are a true point source quality output speaker.

SB Acoustics SB16PFCR25-4 COAX 6" Paper Cone Coaxial - 4 ohm- ROUND

SB Acoustics SB16PFCR25-4 COAX 6" Paper Cone Coaxial - 4 ohm- ROUND

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

In the 4x6 spots, you're extremely limited in options and almost no actual 4x6's woofers that can handle more than 20 watts are veen out there. I would suggest making your own .25" hardboard or HDPE 4x6 plate or get something like this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OQ6Q58/?tag=caraudiocom-20

Add these, run them from around 200hz to whatever 5khz as a full range midbass in those OEM 4x6 locations.

Home

Dayton Audio DS135-8 5" Designer Series Woofer SpeakerThe Designer Series by Dayton Audio was developed specifically with the speaker designer in mind. It is an affordable, attractive line of drivers that puts performance first. Careful engineering ensures that each speaker in the series is...

www.parts-express.com

Using the 4 channel run 60x2 to the BP concentric drivers up front and 60 x 2 to the 4" drivers in the 4x6 locations.

 

[Blackout67]

Not making a lot of sense as you are really limiting the sound potential but lets see.

"I'm trying to get as much cone area from from the mid bass as possible, that is why I was trying to avoid using coaxial for the mid bass driver and because i can Cross the mid bass to whatever I want so I can send more power to it without worrying about distortion from playing up too high."

Not correct. Coaxials have no bearing on the size of the cone. The size of the tweeter that is axially mounted is usually the size of the voicoil so no difference in cone size whatsoever.

With a .5 to .75" MDF riser/adaptor, these would probably fit right in and have great midbass and smooth highs. They are a true point source quality output speaker.

SB Acoustics SB16PFCR25-4 COAX 6" Paper Cone Coaxial - 4 ohm- ROUND

SB Acoustics SB16PFCR25-4 COAX 6" Paper Cone Coaxial - 4 ohm- ROUND

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

In the 4x6 spots, you're extremely limited in options and almost no actual 4x6's woofers that can handle more than 20 watts are veen out there. I would suggest making your own .25" hardboard or HDPE 4x6 plate or get something like this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OQ6Q58/?tag=caraudiocom-20

Add these, run them from around 200hz to whatever 5khz as a full range midbass in those OEM 4x6 locations.

Home

Dayton Audio DS135-8 5" Designer Series Woofer SpeakerThe Designer Series by Dayton Audio was developed specifically with the speaker designer in mind. It is an affordable, attractive line of drivers that puts performance first. Careful engineering ensures that each speaker in the series is...

www.parts-express.com

Using the 4 channel run 60x2 to the BP concentric drivers up front and 60 x 2 to the 4" drivers in the 4x6 locations.

I don't see how splitting frequencies to respective speakers that they are built to be played it confusing. I'm not trying to get some crazy output from 6x4 speakers I am well aware if how power handling works. The 6x4 speakers are literally right next to my head. They are the speakers that I hear the most out of all 6 in the truck.

Mid and high frequencies are directional so therefore it makes sense to have those speakers only plays those frequencies. That leaves me more power to put to my midbass. A coaxial speaker will split power between the woofer and the coaxial mounted tweeter and most woofers out there that will fit my application so not have dedicated crossovers for the midwoofer so it rolls of naturally and depending on the design of the speaker introduces cone break up issue at higher power. I am eliminating this all together by having the woofer only play ~250 hz and below because those frequencies are mostly omnidirectional to our ears. That's is my reasoning

I was not asking for suggestions on which speakers to use. You're answering questions I'm not asking. I am simply wanting to know how the sound stage would be like if I had it set up this way.

And while I will admit the tweeter stalk does not take up much space on the cone itself, the tweeter housing usually overhangs the cone on the woofer causing cancellation.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

IF you want proper staging, forgo the 4x6's altogether and concentrate on the front stage with both tweeters and the midbass drivers, that will give you the very best staging, period. Anything above roughly 150 to 200 hz is directional so no sense in the rears at all.

Tweeters take up very little power, maybe 5-10 watts in a 60x2 setup and you will not hear the different that ten or even 15 watts will provide in the woofer drivers. 45 watts to a woofer will need to go to 360 watts to double the volume to the ear, so 10 watts to a much more efficient tweeter in the 3-20000 hz range is good use of that 10 watts power, the x-over is dividing frequencies and doin so is also diving up some of the power, but very little.

The x-overs usurp very little power. Contrary to the statement made, the body of the tweeter does not cancel anything audible as the tweeters are too close to interfere with the delivery of the frequencies produced by the midbass in a coincidental/coaxial configuration and zero probability with point source drivers all together.

A woofer/tweeter in the front doors will provide the best sound stage, coaxials are close and in some instances equal and a frt/rear 4 or 6 speaker setup will be the poorest option of them all - regardless of how you feed them or what frequency you run them at. So again, a 2 speaker 2-way, a point source or coaxial driver in the doors would provide the best soundstage - no rear speakers at all.

 

[Blackout67]

IF you want proper staging, forgo the 4x6's altogether and concentrate on the front stage with both tweeters and the midbass drivers, that will give you the very best staging, period. Anything above roughly 150 to 200 hz is directional so no sense in the rears at all.

Tweeters take up very little power, maybe 5-10 watts in a 60x2 setup and you will not hear the different that ten or even 15 watts will provide in the woofer drivers. 45 watts to a woofer will need to go to 360 watts to double the volume to the ear, so 10 watts to a much more efficient tweeter in the 3-20000 hz range is good use of that 10 watts power, the x-over is dividing frequencies and doin so is also diving up some of the power, but very little.

The x-overs usurp very little power. Contrary to the statement made, the body of the tweeter does not cancel anything audible as the tweeters are too close to interfere with the delivery of the frequencies produced by the midbass in a coincidental/coaxial configuration and zero probability with point source drivers all together.

A woofer/tweeter in the front doors will provide the best sound stage, coaxials are close and in some instances equal and a frt/rear 4 or 6 speaker setup will be the poorest option of them all - regardless of how you feed them or what frequency you run them at. So again, a 2 speaker 2-way, a point source or coaxial driver in the doors would provide the best soundstage - no rear speakers at all.

Wouldn't that move all the directional sound down super low? Also Iike I said the a pillar speakers are right by my ears like right by them. Normally I would agree on the no rear fill but I think it makes the most sense here.

The door speakers are like 2 feet away and not pointed anywhere near my ears so that's why I'm trying to do it this way.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

And thus the option for tweeters in the upper door, woofers in the lower door. Your question is specific to staging and since the door and pillar locations are fairly far apart, you.'ll still split the stage. The word "stage" is the picture here. You can sit inbetween the very front of the stage, (4x6) or you can sit in several feet back but still in front of the stage (low. front) coaxials or point source, or you can sit in front of it top to bottom, woofer/tweeters in the doors. This is one stage, the 4x6's are another, together more like surround sound. You may prefer this to one or the other, but for purely stagining, one or the other is preferable. This doesn't mean that both cannot be good sounding. Hard to get the doors to play at the volume of the pillar speakers, probably close to a 4 to 1 ratio but again, personal preference.

 

[Blackout67]

And thus the option for tweeters in the upper door, woofers in the lower door. Your question is specific to staging and since the door and pillar locations are fairly far apart, you.'ll still split the stage. The word "stage" is the picture here. You can sit inbetween the very front of the stage, (4x6) or you can sit in several feet back but still in front of the stage (low. front) coaxials or point source, or you can sit in front of it top to bottom, woofer/tweeters in the doors. This is one stage, the 4x6's are another, together more like surround sound. You may prefer this to one or the other, but for purely stagining, one or the other is preferable. This doesn't mean that both cannot be good sounding. Hard to get the doors to play at the volume of the pillar speakers, probably close to a 4 to 1 ratio but again, personal preference.

Well I use a nice Kenwood deck that has 13 band EQ, Time and Phase Alignment as well as all kinds of other goodies.

Is there anyway to use that to make it all come together? Fade up to the front and time align the midwoofers to match up? I'm going for a more surround feel anyways probably should have mentioned that.

In my mustang I had a set of NVX 6x8s in the front doors and rear deck with 3 inch compression drivers mounted to the door panel. I had it set up to where sounded like the music was from all around me and there was no delay between the rear and fronts

But the rear and fronts were coaxial so I didn't know how it would sound having the highs and mids further away from the midbass

 

[mr roo]

If you are looking for stage, completely ditch the speakers right by your head. As others have mentioned, get the biggest midbass you can fit in the door and I would fit a larger format tweeter. Stage a lot of time is helped the lower the tweeter can play and meet up with the midbass. Use your deck for the T/A. We have a set up in my sons Trailblazer. We put a CDT fullrange in his dash and CDT midbass in the doors off a passive. Stage is just fine and he doenst have a deck that does eq or t/A

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

My door speaker cutout is only 5.1 inches. Most of the good aftermarket speakers are 5.7-5.7 inches, and the big name aftermarket 5.25s like Kicker, JBL, and Alpine are all over priced and underwhelming with terrible mid bass and below performance even on a 4 channel. Spent $90 on JBL 5 1/4 components and they sound alright I guess but I've heard cheaper coaxial speakers that sound better. Not tryna spend more than $150ish for the whole set up.

Vehicle is a 96 C1500. It has tweeters in the arm rest in the door but I plan on unplugging them cause I like my tweeters in phase with my mids not pointed straight at my face from my arm rest and I really don't feel like setting up another set of components that **** is annoying any time i convince myself to go for em for whatever reason.

Was thinking about going with A nice set of 6x4s in the rear pillars and cross them around 250hz up, then put some Dayton audio 5.25 woofers in the front doors with silicone baffles and CLD sheets, cross them 60hz to 300ish hz for mid bass.

I know you're supposed to have your tweeter as close to and on phase as much as possible to the midwoofer when it's a 2 way component set. Should I expect any weird anomalies or imaging issues by setting up a 3 way like this? Never done a 3 way speaker system (woofer, mid, tweeter)

I had a 96 C1500 Silverado Xcab and I have a 97 and (2) 98 3drs and all the speakers in the bottom of the dooirs are and were 6.5s with tweeters in the door panels firing upward. i could fit a 6.75 speaker in the existing speaker locations in the doors.
Are you sure you have 5.25s in your front doors?? Even the single cabs have 6.5s 96-99 models that Ive ever had and have .Even the Youkons and surb. and tahoes Ive had

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

I had a 96 C1500 Silverado Xcab and I have a 97 and (2) 98 3drs and all the speakers in the bottom of the dooirs are and were 6.5s with tweeters in the door panels firing upward. i could fit a 6.75 speaker in the existing speaker locations in the doors.
Are you sure you have 5.25s in your front doors?? Even the single cabs have 6.5s 96-99 models that Ive ever had and have .Even the Youkons and surb. and tahoes Ive had

I tread through more clearly of your vehicle and issues that you are talking about on the speaker issues. I did use Larger Name brands with smaller basket sized speakers for drop ins.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

The Polk MM Series Coax. would do well. then again.. in the $150 range you do not want to spend. Components are going to serve so much better though yoy say 100% out of question. for Drop ins id look at Polks. D4Sound has a set of Coax that will drop in those lower dooir locations. But for the lower end of Coax, you are not going to find anything that will serve well above 50 RMS if that and create great sound. With components atr least you can get what you need out of them to serve the sound stage. This would be Ideal for the $ spent IMO other than a set of Polk MM series components, and worth the effoirt for a great front sound stage

MX-362F

 

[SlugButter]

I don’t like the staging of where the speakers fire personally being behind the head, but wherever you can fit a speaker is kinda what you’re stuck with. It would not sound horrible if you had a 4x6 behind a above your head, but it isn’t ideal by sound quality standards. I have horrible 5.25 inch woofer spots in my 08 Colorado. The best sounding setup out of all the setups to my ears was a 3 way setup with a woofer in the door and midrange and tweeter in a pod up on the dash or A-pillar. Regardless of vehicle. This requires install steps that some people just don’t want to do however, like fiberglass in the a-pillar and such. Also, everyone’s ears are different. I like all my music coming from up front with the directional frequencies above 100HZ or so. Midbass I like to cut off at 250 HZ ish and bring the rest of the music up face high firing at an angle across the front of my face. Some people don’t mind rear fill and actually prefer it. It’s hard to know what you like unless you’ve tested it dozens of times, but all you can do is put speakers where they fit. The Dayton is a good midbass option and the direction you’re taking of splitting up the frequencies and bringing the music up high is a solid idea.