Why Dont People Use Rear Fill?

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

Wasn't it said by someone on here a while ago that only gheys enjoy "rear fill"? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

On a more serious note, all the reasons to not have it have already been stated, so I'll just make a brief summary:

1. Source is almost always stereo... it doesn't serve a purpose of necessity.

2. Screws up imaging... I've never been to a concert and stood with my back to the stage.

3. Detracts from the money you can spend on the front stage... allows for better front speakers and amp.

4. You can use the rear speaker openings (if in the rear deck) to vent sub pressure into the cabin.

5. If you don't have a sub stage, then an entry level sub and amp will often cost you in the same ballpark as a good set of rear speakers and amp.

 

[Duke 10+ year member]

My front stage is amped, rear (cheap coax 5.25") is not. Also, there is this fantastic option on my head unit called FADE if the rear is too loud. Plus, the location of my rears is a bit above floor level, slightly behind my head straight down.

 

[BRZguy 10+ year member]

im getting rear fill soon, but ill only have them on when i have passengers in the back.

 

[samson 10+ year member]

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. Never let somebody tell you what sounds good. If you like it, it's all that counts. I use rear fill but I regularly have passengers and the speakers are low and on the rear doors. I honestly don't notice them much (though I do have the fade set slightly to the front). I also think the rear fill can be an easy way to help boost your mid-bass too, which is something a lot of people seem to lack.

Just my $.02.

 

[frzninvt 10+ year member]

Well since SQ and IASCA have gone the way of the dinosaur, I say go for it. It's all about SPL these days anyway right? I used rear fill as an IASCA competitor ('95-'97 1-150 Novice/Amateur Class) and it never hampered my scoring at all. I had it setup where it could be turned off if needed but never chose to.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose, I like the immersion in the musical performance that the rear fill provides and I don't care if it was mixed in 2-channel stereo. I listen in 7.2 Matrix at home and that is my personal preference.

As already stated, if it sounds good to you then do it.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You can't tell anyone what sounds good to them because that is subjective and opinionated. You can tell them, though, when something sounds wrong. And I mean wrong in an objective sense. If you can place any sound as coming from behind you in a stereo recording, that is wrong. If the frequency reproduction of the system is not even close to that of the recording, that is wrong. I won't tell someone what sounds good, but I will tell them that if they are after true musical accuracy, they will reproduce the recording in the same number of channels as it was recorded/mixed (with the possible addition of a summed sub channel crossed as low as possible). An audiophile's setup is simply 2 speakers in front. Same with most studios. This isn't dependant on room size, all rooms in my house are larger than the inside of a van (with the possible exception of one of the bathrooms), but 2 speaker fills them just fine. I've sat in the back row of a concert with no rear speakers and hod no trouble hearing. That was even outside. No one in the rear of my car has ever been unable to hear the stereo, either, because my subs don't overpower the rest of the system.

I could add rear speakers if I wanted but my best hope for the system after the addition would be to get it back to where it was with only fronts. I know that there is no gain in performance to be had. That said, what's the point?

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

That said, what's the point?

A warm feeling similar to a first time **** actress in the the San Fernando Valley that's just so thrill at having all her holes filled?

 

[W8 a minute 10+ year member]

2. Screws up imaging... I've never been to a concert and stood with my back to the stage.

What concerts are you people going to that have any sort of "imaging"????

Most, If not all major rock concerts, as well as local rock bands plug into stacks of MONO amplifiers and sound reinforcement speakers. There is no left and right. Each instrument and singer is mic'd and fed through the sound board, then sent mono out to the house system. If you sit close enough to the stage you might be able to tell where the sound stage is, (and thats only at a local bar or very small venue) other than that you're screwed. Oh, at indoor concerts there's usually a wall behind you that reflects almost every sound that originates from the stage and if you closed your eyes and spun around several times you couldn't tell where the sound was coming from.

Most studio recordings aren't any better. Everything is recorded separately and then mixed through the board, eq'd, mixed again, effects added, mixed and eq'd again. Then the engineer does his best to create a fake sound stage that was never there to begin with.

Sure, there are some studio and live recordings that are recorded with only 2 mic's but you can count those on two hands. And the music isn't all that appealing to 90% of the people in the world.

I used to get a big kick out of people back in the IASCA day's. I used to sit people down in my car and let them listen. Then I would point to imaginary places on the dashboard and say "you can hear the violin here and the cello over there" and they would all nod and agree like sheep. The funny part is that I would point in different places for different people with the same song...and they all believed me.

I truly believe this whole "sound stage" is an imaginary animal created by people just to say there's is better than someone else's. After all, you can't measure it with a meter or any scientific formula. It's a personal judgement, just like figure skating - and just as ghey. You'll hear what you want or are told to hear

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

What concerts are you people going to that have any sort of "imaging"????

Lots of them.... Most of the outdoor concerts I attend have a noticable imaging difference than indoor concerts. I think it depends on the venue, also.

And you're right on another point... most people don't know what good imaging is and will nod at anything you point at. But there are a few of us that want to get as close as we can in attaining the stereo imaging much of the recorded music we listen to should provide. It's my opinion that rear fill will not and can not enhance this.

 

[samson 10+ year member]

I truly believe this whole "sound stage" is an imaginary animal created by people just to say there's is better than someone else's.

LOL! I've wondered the same thing since the first guy tried to tell me 17 years ago that his system was better than mine because of imaging. BTW, I smiled and nodded my head but the whole time I was thinking "This guy is an idiot". The same guy tried to push a 4 sub isobaric design on me that was a total fricken waste of money, imo. Sometimes I think car audio isn't about who system sounds bet, it's about who's BS sounds best. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[headless 10+ year member]

I listen to tons of electronic music that has very defined stereo and delay effects, making sounds seem to fly past you, circle in an oval in front of you getting closer/farther while panning left/right, and generally simply sending totally different signals to left & right sides. Just because you can't perceive stereo separation and think it's a myth that having a correctly configured sound setup will cause a clearer stage that makes it easy to localise correctly placed sounds in a good recording doesn't mean that it's true...many people can't tell the difference between a sony xplod and a jl 12w6 -- and i tell them the same thing i'd tell someone who can't tell the difference between a well configured sound stage and a shitty one -- good for you - save yourself alot of money and don't worry about it. Leave worrying about it to people who can tell the difference. Run whatever you like. I really think that a lot of people have so damaged their hearing with 'serious' subwoofer setups to the point that they can't tell the difference anyway, even if they once could.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

IMO, until you hear a REALLY good audio setup you really have NO IDEA what you're missing. Even then, you have to want to improve what you have.

That narrows those that actually desire hifi down to a VERY SMALL percentile.

Again IMO.

 

[samson 10+ year member]

Just because you can't perceive stereo separation and think it's a myth that having a correctly configured sound setup will cause a clearer stage that makes it easy to localise correctly placed sounds in a good recording doesn't mean that it's true...many people can't tell the difference between a sony xplod and a jl 12w6 -- and i tell them the same thing i'd tell someone who can't tell the difference between a well configured sound stage and a shitty one -- good for you - save yourself alot of money and don't worry about it. Leave worrying about it to people who can tell the difference. Run whatever you like. I really think that a lot of people have so damaged their hearing with 'serious' subwoofer setups to the point that they can't tell the difference anyway, even if they once could.

Damaged hearing? Can't tell the difference? Are you serious? That's coming off somewhat pompous, don't you think? And I'm not exactly sure what the sub comments have to do with rear fill, either? I can perceive left from right AND front to back, thank you very much. I don't think anybody is pushing an overbearing rear set-up. Personally, I'd be leary to add anything in a sedan under the rear glass. But if you sat in my truck, I don't think you could even tell with any certainty if my rear speakers we're even turned on.

You know, I find it amazing that the auto industry hasn't caught on to this sound stage thing. Think of all the money they could save by not putting speakers in the back of their cars. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

IMO, until you hear a REALLY good audio setup you really have NO IDEA what you're missing. Even then, you have to want to improve what you have.
That narrows those that actually desire hifi down to a VERY SMALL percentile.

Again IMO.

Agreed. 100%

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

You know, I find it amazing that the auto industry hasn't caught on to this sound stage thing. Think of all the money they could save by not putting speakers in the back of their cars. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif

Eh, it's simply bragging rights and sales incentive.

"Well our car has 12 speakers total, while this other one you were looking at only has 6 and it costs $2500 more!"