Which unit should i get?

[andy00018 10+ year member]

Originally posted by nguyendot Alpine makes far superior head units than Panasonic. 2v?!? You can get OK sound quality, but S/N ratio is much higher, with the higher Preout voltage that Alpine provides you.

"Alpine makes far superior head units than Panasonic" I didnt say you actually said throw it out the window did I, you just say the Alpine is a better unit by rampling off specs but not by personal experience, which if you do or do not have i dont know. And no where did i put words in your mouth.

 

[nguyendot 10+ year member]

I didnt have to ramble off specs, someone did that for me right after my post.. and those are TESTED specs. I need not back anything I say up when the facts sit right there.

I have owned many Panasonics, and a few alpines, and Pioneer. Alpine by far has the SQ advantage under many of the same conditions..

 

[paikiah 5,000+ posts]

panasonic corp is the culprit this time...

they refuse to sell their high end hu's in the american market...

shoot them down for being stingy, not fellow members //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I think my 7 year old mobile ES deck is the BEST so there.

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by mattj Ok lets see whos winner on quite a few things

 

Features - Panasonic

Expandability - Panasonic

Mp3 player - Panasonic

Preout Voltage - Panasonic

Total wattage output - Panasonic

In-dash TV display quality - Panasonic

 

The list goes on and on... and i dont feel like getting techinical right now...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

The panasonic's pre outs are rated at 5 volts which is higher than alpine's rated pre outs.

By total wattage output, do you mean of the internal amplifier because that alpine head unit has no internal amplifier. As for expandability, they both have aux in capability. I don't know if aux in is what you are defining as expandability, but if it is, then they both seem flexible. One last thing, features surely don't make one deck better than another in my opinion. Historically, the best sounding decks are relatively sparse in features(nak, denon, eclipse, for example). Granted, many people love having a ton of features on a deck, but what makes a deck better to you may not make a deck better to somebody else(I, for example, prioritize sound quality over everything so if one deck sounded better than another but had fewer features, the better sounding deck is still my choice). I am NOT saying the panasonic is better than the alpine or vice versa(I haven't owned a panasonic).

To the original poster: Comparing a $500 alpine to a $300 panasonic is obviously going to lead to the more expensive deck probably having more features. If you compared the 7995 to the Panasonic MXE CQ-HX2083U which also lists for $500, you may have a more fair comparison. Good luck with whatever you buy.

 

[paikiah 5,000+ posts]

for people that support panasonic...

http://panasonic.jp/car/av/products/2DIN/

CQ-TX5500D is the ultimate model for panasonic. SQ... looks goofy, but does the job very well. Bb is their flagship line, as premier is to Pionner.

Refer to an old link of mine...

http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21334&highlight=korean+market

panasonic's center channel speaker that's on the hu is a really stupid feature. Won't be able to keep much SQ on those tiny speakers.

Again, I say shoot panasonic for not introducing their flagship models to the US..

for thos who would like a taste of this hu, I'll be taking orders now. You have the chance to diss alpine owners, one of the only person to own such a hu....but will also be prone to humiliation when people get to see how goofy it looks. (but in reality, the deck looks quite good)

 

[eengrms 10+ year member]

Originally posted by JLCivic The panasonic's pre outs are rated at 5 volts which is higher than alpine's rated pre outs.

By total wattage output, do you mean of the internal amplifier because that alpine head unit has no internal amplifier. As for expandability, they both have aux in capability. I don't know if aux in is what you are defining as expandability, but if it is, then they both seem flexible. One last thing, features surely don't make one deck better than another in my opinion. Historically, the best sounding decks are relatively sparse in features(nak, denon, eclipse, for example). Granted, many people love having a ton of features on a deck, but what makes a deck better to you may not make a deck better to somebody else(I, for example, prioritize sound quality over everything so if one deck sounded better than another but had fewer features, the better sounding deck is still my choice). I am NOT saying the panasonic is better than the alpine or vice versa(I haven't owned a panasonic).

 

To the original poster: Comparing a $500 alpine to a $300 panasonic is obviously going to lead to the more expensive deck probably having more features. If you compared the 7995 to the Panasonic MXE CQ-HX2083U which also lists for $500, you may have a more fair comparison. Good luck with whatever you buy.

Well put. To mattj's defense though- he really never did say panasonic was crap, even though I disagreed with him all along. Hey mattj- if you're going to compare it might have been nice to actually compare the two models the first guy listed rather than putting a blanket statement that Alpine is better. The HU I have in my wife's van is 10x better than quite a few of the alpine models in every category you listed, not every model, but every model less expensive than it.

 

[SBLAZER]

Hey how is that 983 in ya wifes car? does it performs well? i was also looking into that model. are u satified wit the 983?

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

If I recall correctly, Alma Gates mentioned on a forum a few months ago that she

has run Panasonic decks for 5 years or so and loved them. Take that statement

for what it's worth, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I have never run

a panasonic though.

 

[eengrms 10+ year member]

Originally posted by SBLAZER Hey how is that 983 in ya wifes car? does it performs well? i was also looking into that model. are u satified wit the 983?

I really do like it. I would love to put it in my car, but I don't want to go through the hassle to make a custom mounting kit and buy all the stupid expensive Bose adaptors for my car. Plus I like the stock look in there. No company makes a mounting kit for my car yet, maybe when they do.

Go read my review on the 983 in the HU review section. I think it's a pretty fair assessment of the unit.

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Jmac Keyword ... RATED AT 5 volts ...

 

Unfortunately, they are approximately 4 volts while Alpine's 4 volt pre-outs are actually close to 5 volts ...

 

And odds are that their "50x4" internal amplifier only puts out around 16x4 RMS, even though they claim 25x4 RMS ...

 

And if you've never run a Panasonic, please do ...

A guy on another forum tested the pre outs on his alpine 7897. These were his findings(which were actually better than the local shop's findings on an alpine they tested).

front/rear pre outs clipped at 32 out of 35 on the volume(very respectable)

at 31(last notch before it clipped hard, the front/rear pre outs were 3.9 volts(again, good)

the sub pre out never clipped but at max volume, bass boost maxed, it was 3.5 volts

However, their biggest issue was that at volume 31(last notch before serious clipping), the sub pre out was only putting out 1.7 volts(that is 42% of rated pre out voltage, and if that is all you get before the deck clips, I wouldn't exactly call that a glowing review)

Now, that alpine surely isn't underrated by any stretch of the imagination. Couple that with the many posts seen on forums from alpine owners uttering the words "where did my bass go," or "i need a linedriver," and I don't think the quality of alpine's pre outs(atleast in their current production models) is something that is generally seen as underrated.

I have never run a panasonic. I have owned pioneer, kenwood, and alpine before eclipse, and I have been running eclipse for many years. Again, I am NOT saying that panasonic is better than an alpine or vice versa, but when I saw the mention of alpine's pre outs being underrated, I thought of that test done by an alpine owner(and another guy did a quick check and actually got 1.9 volts before clipping). Couple that with the fact that the 7897 is a $600 deck, retail, and it is more surprising.

As for internal power, I have never looked at any manufacturer to have accurate ratings(and surely wouldn't base my head unit decision on its internal amplifier anyway...but I do know it is a big deal to some out there). I loved the alpine I had years ago, but I think eclipse makes a better sounding deck than what else I have heard to date(haven't heard a nak or denon yet) so I have stayed with them(other than the present because I have sold my eclipse cd8051 and the shop let me use an entry level clarion awaiting my new eclipse cd8053).

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Jmac Do these people, per chance, know what they're doing ?

 

Do these people, per chance, even have Alpine head units that have 4 volt pre-outs ?

 

Is it possible that these people left the sub level at 0, which would explain the low pre-out voltage ? You do realize that every step on the sub level is a +0.2 volt gain on the sub pre-out, right ?

Well, the 7897(what I said was tested) is a 4 volt deck and there are 2 other guys with the 7897, both looking for linedrivers(and I have seen several posts from others with different alpines, 7894, etc with lack of bass issues. I am very surprised you haven't seen any of those posts if you are on other forums)

The guy who did this specific test t(with an o-scope) said he had the bass boost(or whatever you call it) maxed. He seemed to know what he was talking about(and another guy tested his and got 1.9 volts before the deck clipped, like I mentioned). It doesn't seem to be the front/rear pre outs that get complaints(I never recall seeing one), but the bass seems to be an issue. I am just pointing out that test and several posts I have seen with the lack of bass complaints. That test I referenced was in a thread on elitecaraudio maybe a week or 2 ago.

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Jmac So ...

 

BBE = +3 (Bass boost maxed)

Sub level = ???

 

My sub-out tested at 4.7 volts (CDA-7873) before distortion ...

 

However, I run mine at ~2 volts (sub level = +11, volume = 22, Bass = +0, Treble = -2, BBE = off, B-Fwd = Off, HPF = 120 Hz, LPF = 120 Hz) because the maximum input voltage on my amplifier is 2 volts ...

Again, the sub pre out tested NEVER clipped, BUT, the pre outs clipped at 32 so at volume 31, the sub pre out put out 1.7 volts. That was the underlying issue, not that the sub pre outs clipped themselves clipped. I didn't mean for this to be an argument. I am just reporting a test that was done and posted on another forum. I just found the link. You may want to read it and email the guy who did the test(assuming his email address is there). He could answer any questions or clarify his testing procedure much better than I can. If you are not a member of the forum, I think you have to register to read the posts(which is ridiculous i know).

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=69591

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Jmac I'm registered ...

 

I just don't remember my password

That forum is weird. I used to have issues with having to type in my username and password like 3 times in order to post anything. That isn't an issue for me any more, but I know others are still having issues with it.

 

[paikiah 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by JLCivic That forum is weird. I used to have issues with having to type in my username and password like 3 times in order to post anything. That isn't an issue for me any more, but I know others are still having issues with it.

it'd be great if you could copy and paste the text here. That way, all of us can have a look at it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[JLCivic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by paikiah it'd be great if you could copy and paste the text here. That way, all of us can have a look at it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I just found it again(when i linked to it, i had to put in my username and pword, but then it just took you to the general forum. Here is the initial post:

kepone

Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2000

Posts: 645

ok, i broke out my oscilloscope today and took some readings on this deck.. this should sort out all the controversy about the weak pre outs on this unit..

i used 100hz and 1khz test tones, and a steady 14.4 volt power supply ( i modified a antec PC 450 watt power supply ), the oscilloscope is a tectronics 211.

first off, the front/rear pre outs.. these performed very well.. max volume on this unit is "35".. the front/rear pre outs do not clip at all until "32".. so you get the max performance at 31.. the voltage at 31 was a steady 3.9 volts RMS.. which is quite nice, considering that the unit is rated at 4v rms, however at 32 the clipping is quite dramatic, so dont ever turn it to that, 31 is the absolute max. these results were EXACTLY the same with either test tone, which i found to be strange, but my room-mate who is an electrical engineer said that is to be expected.

now, the sub pre out.. the trouble maker..

good news: the sub pre out doesnt clip at all, ever.

bad news, at volume level 35 ( max volume ) its only putting out 3.5v rms, which isnt THAT bad if you think about it.. but, and this is a big *but*, since the front/rear clips at 32, you cant run the sub pre out at any level higher than 31.. and at that level its putting out a meager, mere, pathetic 1.7v RMS...

so there you have it, this is the second 7897 i have had, and both have had the same problem.. id like to get my hands on some other decks to test..

so there you have it.. the real deal

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