What would be LOUDER ???

[Liveyman]

Which do you think would get louder , 8 10's or 4 15's ? I am speaking in terms of the same sub just different size . The enclosure will be large and vented . I know that the 15's would play lower , but I believe the 10's would yield more surface area .

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[HincklNutt 10+ year member]

Which do you think would get louder , 8 10's or 4 15's ? I am speaking in terms of the same sub just different size . The enclosure will be large and vented . I know that the 15's would play lower , but I believe the 10's would yield more surface area .

they'd both be super loud, is there any sub in particular that your looking at?

the 15's would probably be easier to power seeing as thered only be four of them.

 

[RandyJ 10+ year member]

well, my math may be wrong but area would be P*r^2, so assuming each sub has 1" of surround, the 10's would have roughly 402in^2 and the 15's would have 502in^2, so there is yer answer, assuming you can supply the proper power and an adequately sized box for the spl.

 

[RandyJ 10+ year member]

they'd both be super loud, is there any sub in particular that your looking at?
the 15's would probably be easier to power seeing as thered only be four of them.

I would think the 15" version of a sub being used for SPL could handle a substantial ammount more then the 10" version, so powering the 15's may take more then the 10's, or easily just as much.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

All other things being equal, the 15's would have considerably more cone area, and thus more potential to get louder.

 

[RandyJ 10+ year member]

well, my math may be wrong but area would be P*r^2, so assuming each sub has 1" of surround, the 10's would have roughly 402in^2 and the 15's would have 502in^2, so there is yer answer, assuming you can supply the proper power and an adequately sized box for the spl.

Sorry, I meant 530^2

 

[Termlab 10+ year member]

All other things being equal, the 15's would have considerably more cone area, and thus more potential to get louder.

people fall into the whole "more cone area is louder" idea. which to me is pretty false. so if you have 500 subs with 1 watt going to each, is that going to be louder than 1 sub with 500 watts by itself?? this is a theoretical situation please dont answer. but myself i would rather power the 1 woofer properly to get the output needed.

this is one of those questions where you need to be more specific. certian subwoofers if having the same size coils in all sizes (take memphis for example). if you have 8 10's you have double the VOICE coils and nearly the same amount of cone area. so if you are going to run alot of power i'd recommend the 10's. but if you are only running around the RMS of the 15's then use that. this truely is install dependant.

but if the coil size changes through the sizes (something like kicker does) where the 10's dont hold nearly as much power as the 15's, i'd take the 15's. this is my opinion on the subject

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

people fall into the whole "more cone area is louder" idea. which to me is pretty false. so if you have 500 subs with 1 watt going to each, is that going to be louder than 1 sub with 500 watts by itself?? this is a theoretical situation please dont answer.

Im going to answer anyway, since you seem to think Im falling into some incorrect means of thinking here. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif All other things being equal (as I said in my first post), more cone will equal more output. Or are you suggesting a 15" XXX (for example) wont be any louder than a 12" XXX using the same amp/power? The idea isn't false, your attempt to debunk it with your extreme example (500 woofers at 1 watt) is what's false. Perhaps in some world where someone would want to hook up 500 woofers with 1 watt, you might be correct. But here on Earth where we usually are comparing more realistics terms, more cone area will equal more output (again, all other factors being equal).

Lastly, Im not at all positive 1 woofer with 500 watts would be louder than 500 woofers with 1 watt each. Due to power compression, efficiency, heat loss (all of the above) every watt you add is less effective than the previous watt. In other words, you'll get more work out of your first 500 watts than you will out of each addition 500 watts you add. The difference in output from 1 watt to 501 watts is greater than from 501 to 1001, etc. This past weekend I had the opportunity to listen to a friend's home stereo that incuded his home made tube amp. It was 8 watts per channel RMS to 2 channels. It did not rattle the windows, but it got surprisingly loud. Pipe 50 watts to those speakers, sure it'll get louder, but not on the same scale as the wattage increase. I think its quite likely the 500 subs with 1 watt each would be (considerably) louder than the single woofer with 500 watts.

 

[Termlab 10+ year member]

Im going to answer anyway, since you seem to think Im falling into some incorrect means of thinking here. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif.

oh goodie. once again i get to debate this with somebody else.....

All other things being equal (as I said in my first post), more cone will equal more output. Or are you suggesting a 15" XXX (for example) wont be any louder than a 12" XXX using the same amp/power?.

stop here...... go back to the beginning. first off ALL THINGS ARENT equal. cone area......... yes. but there is alot more voice coil in the 8 10's vs the 4 15's. so the 10s theoretically have more potential. this is of coarse using the xxx as a reference considering they ALL have the potential to hold 1600 RMS power. so the 10s can hold DOUBLE the power. which is what I said in my original post. depends on the power. if he is running a scud of power i'd go with the 10's. thank you for proving my point. no hard feelings???

The idea isn't false, your attempt to debunk it with your extreme example (500 woofers at 1 watt) is what's false. .

just making a point. it is false in -some- applications. the 10's with the same size coils but running double obviously has more potential. maybe i should have been more clear in my first post. but hey..... i thought i explained it plenty good enough.

Perhaps in some world where someone would want to hook up 500 woofers with 1 watt, you might be correct. But here on Earth where we usually are comparing more realistics terms, more cone area will equal more output (again, all other factors being equal). .

but again all other factors are NOT equal. thats why i said he needs to be more specific on which subwoofers he wants to use. if its kicker L7's 4 8's vs 1 15'' is relatively equal but the 8's would have slightly more cone area (but roughly equal power handling) assuming both are ran at optimal levels of power and in the right enclosures the more cone area should be louder.

but if you take subwoofers that have the same size coils (the xxx) and run twice as many and power both sets properly........ the 10's should be equal. he needs to be more specific. not me. oh, and i used 500 to one just to prove the point, thats why i said dont answer it..... obviously nobody wants to hook up 500 subwoofers.

Lastly, Im not at all positive 1 woofer with 500 watts would be louder than 500 woofers with 1 watt each. Due to power compression, efficiency, heat loss (all of the above) every watt you add is less effective than the previous watt. In other words, you'll get more work out of your first 500 watts than you will out of each addition 500 watts you add. The difference in output from 1 watt to 501 watts is greater than from 501 to 1001, etc. This past weekend I had the opportunity to listen to a friend's home stereo that incuded his home made tube amp. It was 8 watts per channel RMS to 2 channels. It did not rattle the windows, but it got surprisingly loud. Pipe 50 watts to those speakers, sure it'll get louder, but not on the same scale as the wattage increase. I think its quite likely the 500 subs with 1 watt each would be (considerably) louder than the single woofer with 500 watts.

you will never know till you try //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Again, you missed the 'all other things being equal' in my post. No I guess you didn't miss it, you just want to say they aren't equal. My example originally was theoretical, and theoretically when you have two sub systems with all other specs the same (including ecursion, which would eb the case in most like model examples), the one with more cone are will have more potential to get louder. Simpify the example down to a single sub. XXX 15 versus XXX 12, same 1500 watt amp. Clearly the 15 will get louder.

More coils does not necessarily equal more output. I will agree under certain circumstances in ported applications running just at tuning, the added coils of the eight 10's would have an advantage that could make up for the lack of cone area. But again, that's a specific example that does not negate the idea that more cone area equals more potential. If you ignore all other factors, more cone area = more potential. I did not say this is the end all be all answer to more output however.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Let me say, and then I have to go cuz Im suppose to be at a party soon where they are gonna shot a LAW (light anti-tank weapon) at a school bus (*shrug* lol), I understand where you are coming from Termlab, and I agree the number of coils does come into play oin certain circumstances. But for music, nt playing right at tuning constantly, the 15's have considerable cone area advantage over the 10's, and would -most likely- get louder. In an SPL setup, running right at tunning where power handling becomes more of an issue, the extra coils help. Enough to make up for the cone area difference? Hard to say. If it was a black and white answer, all the big name SPL competitors would be running hundreds of 6.5's or even 8's (Ive seen a SPL truck with 6.5's btw) instead of the reltively small number of larger drivers. There is a breaking point in there somewhere, part of the art of building just the right SPL rig I guess.

Cheers.

 

[Termlab 10+ year member]

i also understand where you are comming from but to me the cone area difference between 8 10's and 15's isnt that great and wouldnt be the deciding factor. the coils - number/size would and the power handling.

8 10'' circles = 628.32

4 15'' circles = 706.68

i guess there is a considerable difference but i think the power handling would be the deciding factor. if you are going to supply proper amounts of coarse. glad we could clear this impass up //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

displacement plays a big role too!

 

[Liveyman]

Thanks for the responses guys . I am just building this system for fun . The subs I am looking at are MTX 8000 10's . I can get 8 of them for under $400 . I can get 4 of the 15's for just a little more , but I am currently running 2 MTX 9500 15's and was just wanting to do something a little different . Back in the day a buddy of mine ran 8 JL 10W1's in a sealed box running off of an MTX 2300 . It was silly loud in his Blazer . I will be running a better sub in a much larger vented enclosure . Plus I will be giving them 2400 watts total power . For the money , I doubt I could put together a different system with anywhere near the same output . Most of these new subs that are decent all cost $150 plus . I can get these for under $50 a piece .

Sorry to cause the heated debate . I have one other question though . When I pumped the numbers for the 8000's into Win ISD it was acting weird . I was trying to design a box between 10 and 12 cubes tuned to 29 Hz . Width 40 in , height 20 in , and 50 in long is the max size the enclosure can be . I want the subs firing up with one big port at the back of the car . When I tried to figure it , I started getting weird numbers . Some numbers were in the negative . Not sure what I am doing wrong . If someone can help it would be appreciated .