what does midbass have to do with it????

[toymachine2628 10+ year member]

Actually a speaker can and does move both fast and slow at the same time. The best speakers do it quite well and they are the ones that give good midbass response. There is no hard and fast rule as to the exact frequency cutoff where sound is easily placeable as to its source. As such you try to get the front speakers going as low as possible to remove any chance of a random bass note suddenly placing itself as coming from the sub behind you.
Yes, the full spectrum of frequencies should be balanced and that is why getting good midbass is important. The resonance nodes of the typical car along with the typical speaker placement causes a cancellation node right in the middle of the midbass range and most car installs horribly lack midbass. This leads many to turn up the low pass freq on the subs which then drags the midbass range to being localized as coming from the subs. Totally wrecks the soundstage when it sounds like the band is in front of you except for the bass player and the drum kit is spread all over the place.

As driver diameter increases it also tends to cause an effect called beaming. The freq at which a driver beams is inversly proportional to its diameter. So a large diameter driver beams at a lower freq than a smaller one. A driver that is playing above its beam freq displays a very focused dispersion pattern and the response off axis gets pretty ragged. This is one of the reasons that tweets are small. The other problem associated with driver size is breakup. As a large diaphram tries to reproduce a high freq, the cone begins to flex and ad harmonic content that colors the sound. Smaller drivers can be made stiffer than larger ones for a given mass. High stiffness to mass ratios become important because of voicecoil inductance. To move a heavy cone you need a large voicecoil. A large voicecoil will have a higher inductance which will limit the upper range of the driver's response. High freq drivers need to have a very low inductance and thus need a small coil.

The end result of all of this is that the ideal setup would be a driver able to play from below 20Hz to above 20kHz by itself. This isn't possible so the next best thing is to have a single driver cover as much of the audible spectrum as possible. To this end most DIY guys try to find a tweeter that will play as low as possible allowing them to pair them with a larger midrange. The larger cone area of the midrange allows it to play down low with some authority and limiting it on the top end keeps it from beaming and/or breaking up at higher freqs. The other way that this is handled is to run a 3-way front stage where the midrange plays well up into the freq normally handled by the tweeter in a 2-way setup leaving a dedicated midbass driver and the tweet to fill in the rest. Either method can yield excellent results depending on the specific goals of the system.

Notice I didnt' even mention the subs. If the front stage is done right, the subs are almost an afterthought. They will only cover the bottom octave and a half at most.

Thank you so much! I am starting to understand.

 

[toymachine2628 10+ year member]

You are an idiot.

I just wanted to understand, I wanted an more advanced explanation that's all. why would you call me or anyone an idiot? Even on the internet words have meaning and can hurt.

 

[lillitnn92 10+ year member]

*FYI* i would never buy an amp without a flat freq. response*

wow' date=' i just don't understand this at all. being a recreational home studio musician myself also, this statement floors me. in order to achieve that perfect sound, you should want flat response from your HU to your amps and your speaker set up. you should be hearing the music as it was intended to be heard from the producer of that song/album. you should never have certain parts of the frequency exaggerated....this is of course unless you're a bass head. in the professional audio world [i']flat[/i] is what you want to hear. when everything is perfect from 20hz to 20khz you'll get better spatial imaging and you will hear things in songs you've never heard before. bass, mid, treble and bass boost settings are there so you can compensate for the loss/gain in these areas so your overall experience listening is better, not to make the song something it's not.

 

[oldschool4me 10+ year member]

Problem with running something like that in the rear deck is that they are easily localized. So much for any semblance of proper staging.
There are drivers out there that will flat own those Kickers in the midbass region and still play high enough to pair with a low Fs tweet.

i used those as a refference. i didnt say they were the best thing out lol. it is just a better sound if you use a speaker that does not lack in lower mid frequencies which is usually what you get when you get a comp set. of course your high end sets will have good drivers but most people dont have $500+ to sink into a set. so a decent midbass driver is an improvement on your common midrange driver. if you have a low end comp set in your rear deck replace the driver with a decent midbass and then tell me im wrong. for $200 you can get these.

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4850

 

[solidcrowd 10+ year member]

I had pg rsd6.5 comps and I didn't have much midbass. Was it the comps or the fact that the doors weren't sealed or deadened, because the lowest freq they get to is 45hz? Whats more important.

I know for substage it's mostly like enclosure but what about frontstage midbass since there is no enclosure.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

I just wanted to understand, I wanted an more advanced explanation that's all. why would you call me or anyone an idiot? Even on the internet words have meaning and can hurt.

I thought my subsequent post explained why I said that:

As far as I am concerned he can ask all of the questions that he wants, stupid or otherwise. You will not catch me flaming someone for simply not knowing the answer to his own question.
However, when someone has this type of reply to someone who is trying to help him, it irks me:

Do0d acts like he is paying for the advice.

You see, it had nothing to do with what you were trying to learn. It had everything to do with you sounding ungrateful and like a bit of a jackass. Perhaps you just do not express yourself well in writing.

Rather than posting what you did, you could have said something like, "Thanks for the reply, but I am not quite sure I understand. Can you please explain...."

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

I know it's probably already been said, but midbass is what bridges the gap between sub-bass and midrange. Strong midbass is essential in blending the sub with the front speakers. Weak midbass makes it seem like there's a separation between the mids and lows; they just don't mesh correctly. Strong midbass is especially important when the music contains bass guitar, synthesizers, etc.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I run 8" midbass...so wha?

 

[miker 5,000+ posts]

I had pg rsd6.5 comps and I didn't have much midbass. Was it the comps or the fact that the doors weren't sealed or deadened, because the lowest freq they get to is 45hz? Whats more important.
I know for substage it's mostly like enclosure but what about frontstage midbass since there is no enclosure.

It's the install. . . I have the same issue.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[oldschool4me 10+ year member]

I had pg rsd6.5 comps and I didn't have much midbass. Was it the comps or the fact that the doors weren't sealed or deadened, because the lowest freq they get to is 45hz? Whats more important.
I know for substage it's mostly like enclosure but what about frontstage midbass since there is no enclosure.

you can try adding baffles they help some and are a cheap improvement. but like i was saying most mids that come with your comp sets lack midbass unless you payng high$ for them. if your still not happy, look into different woofers like the cdt's i linked or similar. what do you have in your rear fill?

 

[miker 5,000+ posts]

you can try adding baffles they help some and are a cheap improvement. but like i was saying most mids that come with your comp sets lack midbass unless you payng high$ for them. if your still not happy, look into different woofers like the cdt's i linked or similar. what do you have in your rear fill?

Yeah, but that was one of the reasons PG's were a boner... good mid-bass.

 

[krisfnbz 10+ year member]

I hate mid-bass. Its too expensive to achieve ****it!

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

you can try adding baffles they help some and are a cheap improvement. but like i was saying most mids that come with your comp sets lack midbass unless you payng high$ for them. if your still not happy, look into different woofers like the cdt's i linked or similar. what do you have in your rear fill?

too hell with rear fill.

I'd rather have my midbass up front, along with my highs and lows.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

wow, i just don't understand this at all. being a recreational home studio musician myself also, this statement floors me. in order to achieve that perfect sound, you should want flat response from your HU to your amps and your speaker set up. you should be hearing the music as it was intended to be heard from the producer of that song/album. you should never have certain parts of the frequency exaggerated....this is of course unless you're a bass head. in the professional audio world flat is what you want to hear. when everything is perfect from 20hz to 20khz you'll get better spatial imaging and you will hear things in songs you've never heard before. bass, mid, treble and bass boost settings are there so you can compensate for the loss/gain in these areas so your overall experience listening is better, not to make the song something it's not.

It appears that you misread the post that you quoted specifically the "without" in there.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

i used those as a refference. i didnt say they were the best thing out lol. it is just a better sound if you use a speaker that does not lack in lower mid frequencies which is usually what you get when you get a comp set. of course your high end sets will have good drivers but most people dont have $500+ to sink into a set. so a decent midbass driver is an improvement on your common midrange driver. if you have a low end comp set in your rear deck replace the driver with a decent midbass and then tell me im wrong. for $200 you can get these.http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4850

Again, you missed the point. Having the midbass (any midbass, not just those Kickers) in the rear deck will trash the sound stage. If something like that is what you're looking for on a budget, you'd be better served by putting a set of 4" coaxes in the kicks and use the door locations for a dedicated midbass driver.