What do you know about a 100% DD setup?

[brodeisel 10+ year member]

if your going to try and design a spl enclosure off of t/s specs you don't deserve to own that driver. DD also doesn't recommend that driver for music cars either.
and I havn't seen a designer in a long time that doesn't just sell guesses from t/s and 1/2 space calculations. Some use ''simulated'' cabin gain but that is still a guess. Real not published 3rd party tested t/s give you a decent starting part but that's about it.

And you know what your talking about? Since you always know everything and no one ever can prove you wrong.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

I want to know of a $1700, 8000 watt, clean (so deff not Brazilian) amplifier. Because that is what the M4A is

Someone who clamped a pair said they got 6kw per amp after each one was at 1/2ohm after box rise. Going off of that, it doesn't really seem like an 8kw amp, and certainly not at the ohm load it's rated for, considering each sub was probably wired to 1/4ohm dcr.

http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/mono-amplifiers/101769-dd-m4s-sale.html

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

if your going to try and design a spl enclosure off of t/s specs you don't deserve to own that driver. DD also doesn't recommend that driver for music cars either.
and I havn't seen a designer in a long time that doesn't just sell guesses from t/s and 1/2 space calculations. Some use ''simulated'' cabin gain but that is still a guess. Real not published 3rd party tested t/s give you a decent starting part but that's about it.

So SPL competitors have no use for t/s specs? Really bro? They dont need to know things like xmech or fs, to help calculate their enclosure size or likely tuning and/or port area? Believe me, I realize a successful SPL install is usually after a process of trial and error with different box configurations, but to sugget SPL guys have no need for t/s specs is just crazy. And if it wasn't for DD's policy, I doubt you would be here trying to convince us of this.

And even if your theory on SPL guys not needing specs were true, what about daily installs? SQ installs?

I dont know what you are talking about with your 'selling simulated guesses' comment, t/s specs are easy to generate/verify using a DUMAX machine.

Cabin gain has nothing to do with this.

Real not published 3rd party tested t/s give you a decent starting part but that's about it.

So its your opinion that we couldn't trust t/s specs from DD anyway, so why expect them to publish them at all?

 

[cdimic25 10+ year member]

I'd say any t/s specs are a good start but any speaker is like a good shoe. It molds to its surrounding to create a comfortable fit. Each speaker is different. However I couldn't imagine it being way off from original.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Nobody claimed t/s are perfect, always accurate, or any form of end-all be-all tool for getting exactly the right performance out of a speaker. But you aren't going to convince me that DD trying to pioneer the notion that ignorance is bliss is the right direction for the industry/hobby to move in.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

there are some many variables..

but honestly it's alot less complex than people make it out to be..

key elements are phase, displacement and finding your cars resonance frequency..

placement for all forms is simple a function of phasing..

another element used today is concentration..

focusing the pressure around the sensor..

some vehicles are naturally better at this because of the shape of the dash and angle of the windshield..

as for which sub is louder can have a great deal of the equation but mist sol woofers are so similar now n days it boils Dow to having the strongest motor and lowest power compression..

the biggest variable is going to be phasing though..

also you have to keep in mind you have to choose the right sub for the enclosure which is built to resonate the cabin most affectively..

example you might beable to use 5.5 tuned to 49 with 2 9512s but use the same 5.5 tuned to 52 with btl 12s and get a better score because phase/coupling us mire linear with the btls..

 

[Danometal 10+ year member]

I keep wondering why Incriminator Audio doesn't post their T/S. All you get is "???" That's way worse than DD's only slight obfuscation of their T/S.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

I want to know of a $1700, 8000 watt, clean (so deff not Brazilian) amplifier. Because that is what the M4A is

I could do it multiple times at $1200 a pop...and at 2ohm

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

So SPL competitors have no use for t/s specs? Really bro? They dont need to know things like xmech or fs, to help calculate their enclosure size or likely tuning and/or port area? Believe me, I realize a successful SPL install is usually after a process of trial and error with different box configurations, but to sugget SPL guys have no need for t/s specs is just crazy. And if it wasn't for DD's policy, I doubt you would be here trying to convince us of this.
And even if your theory on SPL guys not needing specs were true, what about daily installs? SQ installs?

I dont know what you are talking about with your 'selling simulated guesses' comment, t/s specs are easy to generate/verify using a DUMAX machine.

Cabin gain has nothing to do with this.

So its your opinion that we couldn't trust t/s specs from DD anyway, so why expect them to publish them at all?

no t/s specs have no place in burp cars. you honestly think running 10 times rms is going to even be close to the t/s that are measured at very low wattage? come on, and yes I don't trust any ones published t/s specs

I could do it multiple times at $1200 a pop...and at 2ohm

I hope your not trying to compare that piece of trash warhorse with the m4a

Someone who clamped a pair said they got 6kw per amp after each one was at 1/2ohm after box rise. Going off of that, it doesn't really seem like an 8kw amp, and certainly not at the ohm load it's rated for, considering each sub was probably wired to 1/4ohm dcr.
DD M4's for sale. - Car Audio Classifieds

and another guy got 6k out of m4's, just because one amp doesn't do it doesn't mean they all won't. Sound pressure has a ton that clamp right around 8k. Running dd's at ohm is a waste of an amp, I've ran mine at .25 daily nominal before.

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

I hope your not trying to compare that piece of trash warhorse with the m4a...

and another guy got 6k out of m4's, just because one amp doesn't do it doesn't mean they all won't. Sound pressure has a ton that clamp right around 8k. Running dd's at ohm is a waste of an amp, I've ran mine at .25 daily nominal before.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Just because you don't know anyone that can clamp 8k+ at 2ohm with their Warhorse with DSP (a wonderful signal integrity device), doesn't mean I won't be able to. Trust me, I'll be putting clamp results up here for everyone to see just exactly what I get. If I get 9500 at 13.8v wonderful. If I get 7500 at 13.8v wonderful too.

Your logic is backwards here. .25 ohm daily is stupid. It stresses an electrical system, provides a greater opportunity for amp failure, and by extension woofer failure. It also, technically reduces sound quality, but people already care so little about true SQ with sub frequencies they play 'SQ' subs at 4ohm and less. I would never run a sub at less than 2ohm for daily and never run a mid at less than 4ohm. If I could get the power I wanted, I would run 4ohm for subs and 8ohm for mids, but we have yet to get into a world where 8k at 4ohm and 1200w at 8ohm is easily achieved.

tl;dr Don't know about you, but I like my music to be loud and have a good sound

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

Thank you for the double poast mr server

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

and another guy got 6k out of m4's, just because one amp doesn't do it doesn't mean they all won't. Sound pressure has a ton that clamp right around 8k. Running dd's at ohm is a waste of an amp, I've ran mine at .25 daily nominal before.

Was this on a 16V setup? I can see that being the case. Do you by any chance have a link to the results? FWIW, people have clamped the original IA 40.1's at just under 8kw on a 16V setup.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

you can account for power compression..

it takes some testing but it can be done..

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

no t/s specs have no place in burp cars. you honestly think running 10 times rms is going to even be close to the t/s that are measured at very low wattage? come on, and yes I don't trust any ones published t/s specs

So if you were to build an SPL setup, you just start building boxes with total guesses? After choosing a sub by completely guessing as to its specs/capabilities? That's a lot of guessing, bro.

And even if I believed you, that still doesn't account for all those other people who aren't building an SPL setup.

...and yes I don't trust any ones published t/s specs

You have trust issues. You cant blame that on theil/small parameters and use that as some proof they are meaningless.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Your logic is backwards here. .25 ohm daily is stupid. It stresses an electrical system, provides a greater opportunity for amp failure, and by extension woofer failure. It also, technically reduces sound quality, but people already care so little about true SQ with sub frequencies they play 'SQ' subs at 4ohm and less. I would never run a sub at less than 2ohm for daily and never run a mid at less than 4ohm. If I could get the power I wanted, I would run 4ohm for subs and 8ohm for mids, but we have yet to get into a world where 8k at 4ohm and 1200w at 8ohm is easily achieved.

So you can sit in someone's car, take a blind test, and tell if the subs are playing at 2ohms or less based on distortion levels?