What defines a subwoofers sound quality?

[RSDXzec 10+ year member]

I use winisd to model subs and to get an idea of sound quality I generally look at group delay to get an idea of responsiveness as sq. Are there any/many other factors which define sound quality?

I'm just asking because using winisd comparing my sub to a sub of another brand usually known for lower sq, with box designs that have relatively the same group delay I'm getting 1db more with the other sub. So I figure there is more to subwoofer sq than group delay, more factors which can't be modelled in winisd.

Cheers.

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[jokers10 10+ year member]

When you say 1dB more, are you referring to a peak level output at a certain frequency or across the entire range?

Either way it doesn't really matter as long as the level is balanced with the other frequencies. SQ is only about accurately reproducing the signal fed to the source. Normally this entails flattening the entire audio spectrum with a slight boost in the low end, and a slight roll-off on the high end. When using modeling software, you want to see how flat you can get the output in the desired frequency range when aiming for sound quality.

There are so many variables in the construction of the woofer that it is almost impossible to nail down the exact options in building the speaker. However if you use a woofer and enclosure that can be modeled relatively flat, you can iron out any unwanted peaks or valleys with a good EQ and RTA.

 

[RSDXzec 10+ year member]

When you say 1dB more, are you referring to a peak level output at a certain frequency or across the entire range?
Either way it doesn't really matter as long as the level is balanced with the other frequencies. SQ is only about accurately reproducing the signal fed to the source. Normally this entails flattening the entire audio spectrum with a slight boost in the low end, and a slight roll-off on the high end. When using modeling software, you want to see how flat you can get the output in the desired frequency range when aiming for sound quality.

There are so many variables in the construction of the woofer that it is almost impossible to nail down the exact options in building the speaker. However if you use a woofer and enclosure that can be modeled relatively flat, you can iron out any unwanted peaks or valleys with a good EQ and RTA.

well I get -0.5db under 30db

+0.5db 40-50hz

+1db 50hz+

I figured stuff like cone materials could change the way the subwoofers sounded. I don't intend to make this a brand comparison thread which is why I didn't state any brands in the first post, but I feel i need to now. I'm comparing my sub to a kicker cvr, which I was lead to believe (from feedback on forums) was more pure spl and less sq than the soundstream I currently use. My sub is seems to work better tuned lower but in the 50hz range the kicker dominates fairly well, though I do like my bass in the 30hz-50hz range.

 

[jokers10 10+ year member]

Like I said, output levels don't equate to better sound quality. Flatness across desired frequency range does.

Also we are talking about Kicker vs. Soundstream. I am not dissing either brand, but their modern products are not names usually associated with SQ. I am sure in the right enclosure either could get pretty flat, and with the help of a good EQ, and RTA could produce some winning results. But are they known for SQ...not really.

 

[RSDXzec 10+ year member]

Like I said, output levels don't equate to better sound quality. Flatness across desired frequency range does.

In which case mine would be better on the sq side

Also we are talking about Kicker vs. Soundstream. I am not dissing either brand, but their modern products are not names usually associated with SQ. I am sure in the right enclosure either could get pretty flat, and with the help of a good EQ, and RTA could produce some winning results. But are they known for SQ...not really.

Well from the brands available to me soundstream + JL from what I've read are more on the sq end. I am not in the US so I only have access to the mass produced products. I feel like I should put this in my sig as I have to state it fairly often.

Also the subwoofer I have is 5 or 6 years old, would you consider that a modern product?

Cheers.

 

[jokers10 10+ year member]

Yes. Soundstream was restructured just after the original tarantula amp came out, and the build quality suffered greatly, but their speakers have never really been known for SQ on the level of other brands. These days finding a brand of sub that everyone will say yes to being a good sounding woofer is very hard. A lot of people get butthurt when you claim one brand is better than another brand. JL, while overpriced makes an accurate sub. I have a slight affection to the Sundown SA line. While the sub itself has peaks and valleys, it can be very forgiving in the right enclosure, and is capable of producing an accurate sound.

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

Moving mass, inductance, motor force, group delay will all affect sq

and winisd does not accurately predict response

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

It's not something really simple to describe... SQ by the objective definition is reproducing the signal without anything taken away or added (low distortion).

Distortion can be present from an uneven frequency response or by much more complicated non-linear modes such as BL, CMS, and Le non-linearity... these all come from the design of the woofers motor, coil, suspension, so on and so forth.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I use winisd to model subs and to get an idea of sound quality I generally look at group delay to get an idea of responsiveness as sq. Are there any/many other factors which define sound quality?
I'm just asking because using winisd comparing my sub to a sub of another brand usually known for lower sq, with box designs that have relatively the same group delay I'm getting 1db more with the other sub. So I figure there is more to subwoofer sq than group delay, more factors which can't be modelled in winisd.

Cheers.

WinISD will not predict SQ. You want flat frequency response. However, it is altered by your car's cabin. Some people prefer using sealed box subwoofers to flatten their frequency response as cabin gain increases with low frequencies. However, it's not easy to confirm that without an RTA measurement. Next issue is that you want good transient response and low non-linear distortion. Again, WinISD can't predict that. WinISD is useful to get a ball park estimate of what the box size and type should be. I also like to play with the excursion chart and SPL graph to see how sensitive the subwoofer is and what's its power handling. However, those graphs are only approximation since WinISD model is based on small signal parameters.

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

I started a thread comparing the differences in SQ and SPL woofers, and it got some good info in, I hope it can help you a little: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofers/521550-design-differences-between-sq-spl-woofers.html

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

I started a thread comparing the differences in SQ and SPL woofers, and it got some good info in, I hope it can help you a little: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofers/521550-design-differences-between-sq-spl-woofers.html

thread = Seexx