Weak bass without bass boost! Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

a good handful of modern hip hop goes to -4 and -3 levels of bass (for example mask off by future) So yes lets see how long your subs last with a -10 db tone gain adjustment. Again you are in the SQ stage, when you go for max output for every song, you need to adjust for each song. Not just type of music, there's some rap thats really weak and theres also some pop with really strong bass. You need to recognize how loud your system is capable of getting to without excess heat built up and stay within that healthy level of output.

New people need a reference. The DD-1 is fine if used right.

Don’t nuke it. Set it and forget it.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

New people need a reference. The DD-1 is fine if used right. Don’t nuke it. Set it and forget it.

and then you get threads like this and countless others.... Or the person can get properly educated on how bass recording levels affect head unit pre-out and overall amplifier power output....

Literally a promotion of laziness, ignorance and complacency.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

and then you get threads like this and countless others.... Or the person can get properly educated on how bass recording levels affect head unit pre-out and overall amplifier power output....
Literally a promotion of laziness, ignorance and complacency.

Should always set it and forget. Adjust volume and that’s it.

 

[Jcsaudio]

I have a 12" Rockford Fosgate P3 in a 1996 Civic coupe. I've read great reviews about this thing being a powerhouse for the price point, but I'm just not feeling it. After I set the gain on my amp, I can turn my volume up to 38 and the bass is there, but it's just meh. You can't feel it and it's just faintly in the background. I had a single 12" shallow mount JL W3 before that hit harder than this is. I can't seem to understand why a full-sized sub would hit so weak in comparison.
Since I know y'all are going to ask me what equipment I'm using and how I went about setting my gain, here's a bit more info:

Headunit: Pioneer MVH-2300NEX

Speakers: pair of Hertz HSK165's up front

Sub: 12" Rockford Fosgate P3D2 wired to 1 ohm in a 1.5 cu ft. sealed box

Amp: Cerwin-Vega H71200.1D rated at 500 wrms @ 1 ohm (sub), Soundstream TN4.900D rated at 150 wrms/ch @ 4 ohm (speakers)

Front battery: Optima Yellowtop

Rear battery: XS Power

Alternator: 260A @ 1800rpm from Mike Singer and big 3 upgrade in 1/0 awg

Wiring: 1/0 AWG from front battery to rear battery with 4 awg to amps. 10 awg speaker wire throughout.

So when I set the gain on my amp I set the eq on my headunit to flat, with all bass boost set to zero. Perfectly flat. I then used a DD1 to find the max unclipped volume from my headunit to be 38/40. I set the volume to 38, set my in-line bass knob to max, played a 0db 40 Hz sine, and set my gain using the same DD1. Got it as high as it would go without clipping and called it good. Get in the car and the bass is meh. I thought that maybe the sub was out of phase, but it's not. I double-checked my grounds, and they are rock solid. The only way I've been able to get crazy bass, is by turning up the bass boost on my headunit to 3/4 with the volume at 35. When I do that, the P3 wants to rattle my poor Civic apart. I don't want to push the bass boost that high though, fearing that I might clip the signal. Anyone got any idea what I'm doing wrong? This is my first pretty in-depth build, and any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, my door speakers sound great with crazy volume at full-tilt.

I know this sounds kind of elementary but did you check the basics? Is the sub actually wired to 1 ohm (verify with multimeter)? Is the sub sealed to the box properly or is the box leaking? Push on the sub in a very quiet area and listen for air leaks. Is the gain for the 4 channel set properly compared to the sub amp making your main speakers get louder than the sub with less volume? You are comparing this sub to a shallow JL but is this sub in the same location in the same car (apples to apples)? Did you try changing the phase to see what happens?

If you do not listen to your music at volume 38 out of 40 than try adjusting the gain by ear as some have said above until it blends in with your front stage and then upgrade the amplifier and go with a ported box later (not pre-fab box). That subwoofer really needs an amplifier capable of a true 600 watts RMS bare minimum and at least 750 watts RMS for headroom.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

seem like you want everyone to adjust to each type of music.

No ******* ****. Music is recorded at different levels. For someone who pretends to be so smart and knowledgeable you think you'd know that

 

[bubbaG2010]

Decided to bump up the gain a bit. What a difference. I can see my rear window vibrating when i'm outside now. MUCH better! Just turned it up while playing regular music until it was barely starting to distort, and backed it down a notch so it went away. Now that that's working like it should...I'm having a different set of issues. So if I'm running my system at full-tilt and start to come to a stop, it's almost as if my car is going to die. The idle drops to a rough *** idle, and when i kick the bass knob down significantly, it goes away.

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

That is because your electrical system is being worked too hard. You are literally feeling the car struggle to generate enough power to operate its necessary systems, let alone feed the amplifiers enough current. You need to upgrade the electrical system and turn it down when your rpm goes below 1500rpm because the alternator can't supply enough power if the engine isn't spinning it fast enough.

 

[Jcsaudio]

Check the voltage when it does that compared to when the system is not on. It should not fluctuated much if any at all and it should not dip below 13.5 volts while running unless your electrical demand is greater than your alternator can supply. With a 260 amp alternator, you shouldn’t have an issue on 1100 watts rms. I have a stock 100 amp alternator in my CX5 and have the same wattage and mine stays between 13.8 and 13.9 volts. In fact my sub amp alone is capable of 1200 watts RMS alone but it’s tuned lower for now.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Spot on much? ;D

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

No ******* ****. Music is recorded at different levels. For someone who pretends to be so smart and knowledgeable you think you'd know that

What? I think you got confused somewhere. Or do you think you change settings every song, album, artist, type? Nah

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

What? I think you got confused somewhere. Or do you think you change settings every song, album, artist, type? Nah

I adjust sub level every song that's recorded at a different level, otherwise it wouldn't be balanced with my doors.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

What? I think you got confused somewhere. Or do you think you change settings every song, album, artist, type? Nah

in general yes if I want to hair trick with aerosmith lmfao. Non-rebassed version of course.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I adjust sub level every song that's recorded at a different level, otherwise it wouldn't be balanced with my doors.

Then something isn’t right. Or you just want to bump it up.

 

[CplCuddles]

Literally none of you guys caught this??? really????


you fked up by falling into the noob trap. Get rid of the DD-1 and set your gains by ear, coil and amp temps and voltage like a proper knowledgable car audio person.

I'll paste this from another thread that I had to explain to another person that did the exact same fk up but from the opposite end of the spectrum.

I have a question regarding this that maybe you'd be able to answer. I do set my gains with a -10db test tone and a DD-1 as well as an Oscope to double check everything. I also check 90% of the music I listen to in audacity and take down the loudest note such as "15 -(44,-6.7)The Percocet & Stripper Joint" and I adjust my music accordingly for my -10db gain setting. My main question is, am I immediately clipping if go .1 or 1db over? such as playing a 9db song with my settings. I mean I imagine it works very similar to how you guys do it in the sense of if the song feels like it hits harder than most and I haven't tested it I don't play it full volume. I mean I'm sure the way you guys do it your THD is prob is the >10% range, ik clipping doesn't directly hurt my subs/amps, its all about the heat. How do you guys monitor your amp heat? ik sub its typically stinky subs.

And since music is dynamic would playing a song with -6db bass with my -10db tune really hurt in the long run? I mean for instance future songs, I can play them without any adjustment and I know i'm going over my limit, but my subs and amps dont get hot at all. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I have a question regarding this that maybe you'd be able to answer. I do set my gains with a -10db test tone and a DD-1 as well as an Oscope to double check everything. I also check 90% of the music I listen to in audacity and take down the loudest note such as "15 -(44,-6.7)The Percocet & Stripper Joint" and I adjust my music accordingly for my -10db gain setting. My main question is, am I immediately clipping if go .1 or 1db over? such as playing a 9db song with my settings. I mean I imagine it works very similar to how you guys do it in the sense of if the song feels like it hits harder than most and I haven't tested it I don't play it full volume. I mean I'm sure the way you guys do it your THD is prob is the >10% range, ik clipping doesn't directly hurt my subs/amps, its all about the heat. How do you guys monitor your amp heat? ik sub its typically stinky subs.

So i find the point where my subs stop getting louder and starts sounding like a totally different tone than what it supposed to sound like aka normally a 40hz bass drop starts sounding like a 42 or 43 hz bass drop and starts sounding different. Thats your 10% thd point which is pretty audible and thats clipping, try not to stay in that zone for longer than 5-6 seconds. I'd back the sub level or master volume off a few notches until the output is clean and the sound is uncolored. Now play for a bit like 2 mins, then 5 mins then 15 mins sessions, smell the sub's coil or the box's port, feel the sub's dustcap or if you have access to the coil, touch the coil, it should be cool to very warm but never hot to the touch, same with your amp. AKA if you touch it and it hurts to hold it longer than 2 seconds, you need to back sh*t down even more.

Once you get to a point where the heat is proper, memorize that output level by heart. For every song you play, back down the head unit volume and roll up on the head unit volume knob until you reach that output level, if the bass is too strong and vocals are too weak, lower the sub level. if the vocals are too forward and bass is nonexistent, raise the sub level. simple as that but now you have a point of reference on how loud your system should be while being clip free.

Do the same heat test during summer because things heat up much faster in the summer and can get a lot more dangerous with the heat depending on your state. You may not be anywhere near clipping but your sub and amp can still overheat and blow up or go into thermal protect. Heat is the actual cause of equipment death, clipping just accelerates heat build up.

Thats why i dont bother messing with test tones for gain settings at all. Relying on your ears and knowing what distortion sounds like then doing tests with heat is a much more guaranteed way to get max output out of your setup without short changing yourself on output while keeping your equpment safe. Its a skill you need to build. Most people using DD-1s and test tones are literally refusing to learn these proper skills.

The DD-1/oscope is good for finding head unit and multiple signal boosters aka heaunit to dsp/LOC or line drivers/EQ max distortion levels though, i give it that.