Weak bass without bass boost! Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

[bubbaG2010]

I have a 12" Rockford Fosgate P3 in a 1996 Civic coupe. I've read great reviews about this thing being a powerhouse for the price point, but I'm just not feeling it. After I set the gain on my amp, I can turn my volume up to 38 and the bass is there, but it's just meh. You can't feel it and it's just faintly in the background. I had a single 12" shallow mount JL W3 before that hit harder than this is. I can't seem to understand why a full-sized sub would hit so weak in comparison.

Since I know y'all are going to ask me what equipment I'm using and how I went about setting my gain, here's a bit more info:

Headunit: Pioneer MVH-2300NEX

Speakers: pair of Hertz HSK165's up front

Sub: 12" Rockford Fosgate P3D2 wired to 1 ohm in a 1.5 cu ft. sealed box

Amp: Cerwin-Vega H71200.1D rated at 500 wrms @ 1 ohm (sub), Soundstream TN4.900D rated at 150 wrms/ch @ 4 ohm (speakers)

Front battery: Optima Yellowtop

Rear battery: XS Power

Alternator: 260A @ 1800rpm from Mike Singer and big 3 upgrade in 1/0 awg

Wiring: 1/0 AWG from front battery to rear battery with 4 awg to amps. 10 awg speaker wire throughout.

So when I set the gain on my amp I set the eq on my headunit to flat, with all bass boost set to zero. Perfectly flat. I then used a DD1 to find the max unclipped volume from my headunit to be 38/40. I set the volume to 38, set my in-line bass knob to max, played a 0db 40 Hz sine, and set my gain using the same DD1. Got it as high as it would go without clipping and called it good. Get in the car and the bass is meh. I thought that maybe the sub was out of phase, but it's not. I double-checked my grounds, and they are rock solid. The only way I've been able to get crazy bass, is by turning up the bass boost on my headunit to 3/4 with the volume at 35. When I do that, the P3 wants to rattle my poor Civic apart. I don't want to push the bass boost that high though, fearing that I might clip the signal. Anyone got any idea what I'm doing wrong? This is my first pretty in-depth build, and any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, my door speakers sound great with crazy volume at full-tilt.

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[BOOMINGRANDPA 5,000+ posts]

set gain with 50 hz tone.. what is lp xover set at? should be 80-120hz for sealed box, u don't have ss filter turned on do u? idk that amp that sub could probably take 800rms.. u have 260 amp alt use it man lol.. do ported box for it & get rf750 or sq 850 amp.. also sub could take some time to break in as well but u can turn gain up bass boost down.. since u set with 40hz tone the bb is doing more harm than more gain would..

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

I have a 12" Rockford Fosgate P3 in a 1996 Civic coupe. I've read great reviews about this thing being a powerhouse for the price point, but I'm just not feeling it. After I set the gain on my amp, I can turn my volume up to 38 and the bass is there, but it's just meh. You can't feel it and it's just faintly in the background. I had a single 12" shallow mount JL W3 before that hit harder than this is. I can't seem to understand why a full-sized sub would hit so weak in comparison.
Since I know y'all are going to ask me what equipment I'm using and how I went about setting my gain, here's a bit more info:

Headunit: Pioneer MVH-2300NEX

Speakers: pair of Hertz HSK165's up front

Sub: 12" Rockford Fosgate P3D2 wired to 1 ohm in a 1.5 cu ft. sealed box

Amp: Cerwin-Vega H71200.1D rated at 500 wrms @ 1 ohm (sub), Soundstream TN4.900D rated at 150 wrms/ch @ 4 ohm (speakers)

Front battery: Optima Yellowtop

Rear battery: XS Power

Alternator: 260A @ 1800rpm from Mike Singer and big 3 upgrade in 1/0 awg

Wiring: 1/0 AWG from front battery to rear battery with 4 awg to amps. 10 awg speaker wire throughout.

So when I set the gain on my amp I set the eq on my headunit to flat, with all bass boost set to zero. Perfectly flat. I then used a DD1 to find the max unclipped volume from my headunit to be 38/40. I set the volume to 38, set my in-line bass knob to max, played a 0db 40 Hz sine, and set my gain using the same DD1. Got it as high as it would go without clipping and called it good. Get in the car and the bass is meh. I thought that maybe the sub was out of phase, but it's not. I double-checked my grounds, and they are rock solid. The only way I've been able to get crazy bass, is by turning up the bass boost on my headunit to 3/4 with the volume at 35. When I do that, the P3 wants to rattle my poor Civic apart. I don't want to push the bass boost that high though, fearing that I might clip the signal. Anyone got any idea what I'm doing wrong? This is my first pretty in-depth build, and any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, my door speakers sound great with crazy volume at full-tilt.

You got that sub crammed in a sealed enclosure for a single SVC 4 ohm 10.Get or make a Ported enclosure of approx 2.0@32-34 htz and let that sub do some work. It will still do so much better in that type of enclosure on 200 rms and murder what you have going on right now.Get a ported enclosure for that sub built and Tuned, and reset and retune

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Id look into more power on sub duty in the future of a min of 1k @1 ohm. Gives you a little head room /

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Literally none of you guys caught this??? really????

ISo when I set the gain on my amp I set the eq on my headunit to flat, with all bass boost set to zero. Perfectly flat. I then used a DD1 to find the max unclipped volume from my headunit to be 38/40. I set the volume to 38, set my in-line bass knob to max, played a 0db 40 Hz sine, and set my gain using the same DD1. Got it as high as it would go without clipping and called it good. Get in the car and the bass is meh. I thought that maybe the sub was out of phase, but it's not. I double-checked my grounds, and they are rock solid. The only way I've been able to get crazy bass, is by turning up the bass boost on my headunit to 3/4 with the volume at 35. When I do that, the P3 wants to rattle my poor Civic apart. I don't want to push the bass boost that high though, fearing that I might clip the signal. Anyone got any idea what I'm doing wrong? This is my first pretty in-depth build, and any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, my door speakers sound great with crazy volume at full-tilt.

you fked up by falling into the noob trap. Get rid of the DD-1 and set your gains by ear, coil and amp temps and voltage like a proper knowledgable car audio person.

I'll paste this from another thread that I had to explain to another person that did the exact same fk up but from the opposite end of the spectrum.

Sorry to break this to you but the DD-1 is for noobs that think they are legit because they overpaid for a useless tool and a test tone that they could have just downloaded online instead of a CD and could have just bought an oscilloscope that does WAY more than just monitoring if you have distortion in your signal for way less than a DD-1. Not trying to be a d*ck by any means, just telling it like it is.
You also need to learn the relation of bass levels in the recording and how it directly affects your head unit's pre-out voltage which directly affects your amplifier power output and overall signal. Setting the gain and then leaving the volume at 38 out of 40 for every song you play is a one stop trip to clip city and blown equipment. Thats the worse way to set thing and run your setup.

Some music will have -7 db recording levels which already puts you past clipping, some will have -1 db levels of bass which will massively clip you. While some will have -15 db levels of bass where the song feels really weak. Thats why relying on a test tone to set gains for music is utterly and completely useless.

At least now you have a reference point where you stink up the subs, back down the gain or sub level until it doesn't stink or overheat your coil or amp. REMEMBER how loud that point is and now with each song you play you can adjust the sub level accordingly to match that level of output which is your ideal clean point.

Temperature, and knowing how loud your max clean output is via testing and adjusting everything accordingly per song played is called active gain setting which is what all the pros do. I'd advise you to download audacity, use the spectrum analyzer and see the recording levels of bass in several of your songs to get a feel of what you should actually be shooting for.

linkin park which normally has decent levels of bass for a rock song but its at a -9.5ish db level of bass recording at 55hz. Meaning if you used a 0 db test tone to set your gains, you are missing out on 9.5 dbs of possible output here, if you use a -5 db test tone to tune your setup, you miss out on 4.5 dbs of output, plain and simple

Now some Aerosmith good luck getting any bass from a hip hop tune with a -15 db at 46hz . This is why active gain setting aka your own personal adjustments of the sub level on the head unit is very important. I can literally still make hair fly with my bass with this song, it just requires a much different setting.

Now this shows -3 db at 36hz which means if I set the gain with a -10 db tone, I'll be clipping by 7 dbs worth which equates to quite a few clicks to my sub level. However if I set it with a 0 db test tone, i'll be losing out on -3 dbs worth of output. which is a notch or two down on the sub level. Literally proof of why setting gains with test tones is utterly beyond useless.

[/b]

Gear Temperature is important because 1: heat is what kills your subs and amps. 2: clipping causes heat. 3: you can be overheating because of other issues even though you arent clipping which will still kill your equipment.

 

[imsickofweed]

What if youre not competing and just want a good tune for your normal type of music? Should you be using a DMM?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

The DD-1 is fine. Just not the 0db tone. Use -5 or -10.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

The DD-1 is fine. Just not the 0db tone. Use -5 or -10.

and only listen to one type of music

 

[BOOMINGRANDPA 5,000+ posts]

What if youre not competing and just want a good tune for your normal type of music? Should you be using a DMM?

what they saying is if u set gain at 1 freq (like 50hz) then when amp plays 35hz bass the gain could be tad high (so use -5 tone) but at 60-80hz (mostly rock music) gains not high enough.. i set mine with 50 hz tone everything flat and when i play old rock i turn sub volume up +2 on hu and volume up to 30 instead of 28 (which is normally my max on rebassed stuff)

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

this is how i set mine....

turn off hipass xover for mids, play this track up as loud as sounds good, with eq flat, no bass boost etc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqSaOhUF0NQ

slowly turn up sub gain (with sub xover on around 80hz) until sub blends with mids. then turn mids crossover back on. mid and sub xover should be set to around 80hz or so

rap, trap, etc will hit pretty hard doing it this way

dont use boost, or loudness etc

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

The DD-1 is fine. Just not the 0db tone. Use -5 or -10.

bad. the guy that used a -10 db test tone and stunk up his subs is what I got my quote on. You guys literally dont read.....

To get the max output out of your system, you need to know how to adjust on the go. Music will never be a constant -10 or a -5 or a 0 db. You can have some bass for fill which is fine but if you are going to max clean output, it requires work on the listener's end to realize what the max clean output is and adjust the sub level per song to achieve it.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

What if youre not competing and just want a good tune for your normal type of music? Should you be using a DMM?

I literally explained how you should set your gains, monitor and test for your max clean output limit in my comment...

 

[nate0]

bad. the guy that used a -10 db test tone and stunk up his subs is what I got my quote on. You guys literally dont read.....

To get the max output out of your system, you need to know how to adjust on the go. Music will never be a constant -10 or a -5 or a 0 db. You can have some bass for fill which is fine but if you are going to max clean output, it requires work on the listener's end to realize what the max clean output is and adjust the sub level per song to achieve it.

Agreed. Music produced and mastered or even remastered music, each is composed uniquely to the artist's intent in how they best want their music heard. I am glad I have a bass knob now as I was tired of turning the volume dial on every other track like a dummy for 3 months...my issue though is tunning the subs in my car as I cant tell if they are approaching distortion with all the rattling. I'm considering pulling the box outside the car or angling them with the trunk lid open and a adjusting the subs by ear that way and then toss back in in the right position.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

bad. the guy that used a -10 db test tone and stunk up his subs is what I got my quote on. You guys literally dont read.....

To get the max output out of your system, you need to know how to adjust on the go. Music will never be a constant -10 or a -5 or a 0 db. You can have some bass for fill which is fine but if you are going to max clean output, it requires work on the listener's end to realize what the max clean output is and adjust the sub level per song to achieve it.

Bad if you listen to boosted music. You seem like you want everyone to adjust to each type of music.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Bad if you listen to boosted music. You seem like you want everyone to adjust to each type of music.

a good handful of modern hip hop goes to -4 and -3 levels of bass (for example mask off by future) So yes lets see how long your subs last with a -10 db tone gain adjustment. Again you are in the SQ stage, when you go for max output for every song, you need to adjust for each song. Not just type of music, there's some rap thats really weak and theres also some pop with really strong bass. You need to recognize how loud your system is capable of getting to without excess heat built up and stay within that healthy level of output.