Use this headunit or upgrade it?, considering this setup...

[maxmil982]

Currently planned setup:
-One Sundown SA-12 wired to 1-ohm @1200w RMS per the output specs of Orion D2400 monoblock amp.

-Pair of Kicker KSS65 2-ways, 125RMS each (4-ohm), and a pair undecided coaxes (whatever coaxes I can find that will fit with the amp)...both powered by a Precision Power P900.4 Class D amp (145W RMS × 4ch @4ohms)

Headunit I have now is a Kenwood DDX419 from 2012 specs are:

• Power Output:
  • -Peak: 50 watts x 4 channels
  • -RMS: 22 watts x 4 channels
  • -3-Band equalizer with six presets
  • -4 Sets of 4V preamp outputs (front, rear and subwoofer)

Any thoughts on how well this headunit above matches with my planned setup? I am looking to make the setup SPL with deep clear lows.

Anything in particular this headunit is missing, and what should I be looking for in a new headunit if an upgrade is warranted?

Thanks in advance. This is my first build, being the noob I am. But I am trying to get it done fairly well the first time so it lasts a good while and sounds great.

Click to read more...

 

[BCotrell]

So for spl/good lows I think the only thing that the deck will influence is relative to the preamps and filtering. The deck has 4v preouts and has hpf so you’ll be able to ensure 80 and below our your substage.

relative to your mids and highs, consider bridging that ppi and get a good Comp set that can take the additional bridged power. It will also bring your tweeter up which is optimal for soundstage. don’t spend money on rear speakers

 

[BOOMINGRANDPA 5,000+ posts]

as far as subs go sounds fine.. only think newer model would give u is 5v preout not really any diff.. u can turn sub volume on hu to +3 and that's same as more preamp voltage (assuming it has sub volume).. I have x301 new model is x303 (single din) works great

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

It doesnt matter if you are going for loud. If you want SQ with mids and highs then you'd want to upgrade

 

[maxmil982]

It doesnt matter if you are going for loud. If you want SQ with mids and highs then you'd want to upgrade

Thanks. Man, I'll tell you I've done dozens of hours of research and am still just soaking it all in. Really ready to dive in soon and start this build.

Something you said, and what I've been hearing is SPL and SQ dont really coexist realistically. One thing for sure is I will be porting to 31HZ, so deep loud lows is definitely the priority. And maybe this will come with practical experience after building, but I'm also concerned with the SQ of the mids and highs AND of course clarity and accuracy of the lows. In reality I'm not gonna drive around beating my chest out with lows up to the max. So at mid volume I'd like it to be clear and clean.

I assume the excellent amp and sub I got will take care of good clean lows.

Back to the mids and highs you mentioned... It seems like you're saying an upgrade on the H/U will improve the SQ of the mids and highs just by it being current and better processing(pls correct me if I'm wrong). Is there a separate piece of equipment I can add to this setup to equate what a better H/U will provide and may even be more beneficial? What would you suggest I look into as far as an additional piece of equipment or processor?

I'm trying to keep it relatively simple yet quality. I'm not too concerned with getting totally audiophile level quality. Just want to get it sounding great without splitting hairs.

 

[maxmil982]

So for spl/good lows I think the only thing that the deck will influence is relative to the preamps and filtering. The deck has 4v preouts and has hpf so you’ll be able to ensure 80 and below our your substage.

relative to your mids and highs, consider bridging that ppi and get a good Comp set that can take the additional bridged power. It will also bring your tweeter up which is optimal for soundstage. don’t spend money on rear speakers

Many thanks. I am looking to provide decent sound for rear passengers. My kids enjoy a nice system and they ride with me a lot. Do you think those upgraded front comps you were talking about would be comparable to my planned setup with lesser comps AND a rear set? As long as it's close thats fine, not trying to split hairs.

If so, what are a few comps you would suggest?

 

[maxmil982]

as far as subs go sounds fine.. only think newer model would give u is 5v preout not really any diff.. u can turn sub volume on hu to +3 and that's same as more preamp voltage (assuming it has sub volume).. I have x301 new model is x303 (single din) works great

Thanks. As far as mids and highs, is there a significant amount of SQ to be gained by upgrading the H/U? I wont really worry about it if it's only a slight difference. Any other additions or suggestions you can point out that I should research or consider besides H/U upgrade?

 

[BCotrell]

Marginal benefit from updating your deck unless you’re going to run active but seems you’re looking for simple.

I’ve taken rear speakers out of both of my vehicles (big suv and a small car), focused on the front stage, sat in the back seat and didn’t have a reduced listening experience.

Again, the amp you have is solid. Spend the money you’d spend on aftermarket rear coaxials for a better component set. Keep the factory speakers on the headunit power for some rear fill was long as they’re not blown

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Many thanks. I am looking to provide decent sound for rear passengers. My kids enjoy a nice system and they ride with me a lot. Do you think those upgraded front comps you were talking about would be comparable to my planned setup with lesser comps AND a rear set? As long as it's close thats fine, not trying to split hairs.

If so, what are a few comps you would suggest?

The main thing limiting you is the 3 band EQ. I'm assuming you want to keep the setup simple because most good setups for loud and sound quality are not simple. Just keep it simple for now, if you desire more, we'll talk about your next future possible setup that does require an advanced head unit with network mode, 13 band EQ, time alignment etc...

 

[maxmil982]

Marginal benefit from updating your deck unless you’re going to run active but seems you’re looking for simple.

I’ve taken rear speakers out of both of my vehicles (big suv and a small car), focused on the front stage, sat in the back seat and didn’t have a reduced listening experience.

Again, the amp you have is solid. Spend the money you’d spend on aftermarket rear coaxials for a better component set. Keep the factory speakers on the headunit power for some rear fill was long as they’re not blown

Not really looking for simple, looking for damn good and achievable without breaking the bank.

So, I'm definitely going with the SA-12 and Orion monoblock. Already have the PPI 900.4 and now I'd like to go active. I've done some research and here's the next things I got planned...

-Upgrading the H/U to something modern like a Kenwood
-Dayton 408 as a DSP
-a Dayton umm6 mic to fine tune things using rew
-Oscilloscope to set gains and such
-going active, so some SB Acoustics SB17 (will have to do more research on exactly what model and what type of cone)
-Some sort of nice tweeters (haven't gotten to researching these yet)
-sound deadening and sealing front doors
-Big 3 and any other electrical upgrades

Can you provide any advice or suggestions on if the SB17s are a great choice and/or other mid woofer options that would work well with my SPL, while still SQ, setup? As well as if theres anything important I'm missing from the list above?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Not really looking for simple, looking for damn good and achievable without breaking the bank.

So, I'm definitely going with the SA-12 and Orion monoblock. Already have the PPI 900.4 and now I'd like to go active. I've done some research and here's the next things I got planned...

-Upgrading the H/U to something modern like a Kenwood
-Dayton 408 as a DSP
-a Dayton umm6 mic to fine tune things using rew
-Oscilloscope to set gains and such
-going active, so some SB Acoustics SB17 (will have to do more research on exactly what model and what type of cone)
-Some sort of nice tweeters (haven't gotten to researching these yet)
-sound deadening and sealing front doors
-Big 3 and any other electrical upgrades

Can you provide any advice or suggestions on if the SB17s are a great choice and/or other mid woofer options that would work well with my SPL, while still SQ, setup? As well as if theres anything important I'm missing from the list above?

If you plan on getting a dayton dsp, you dont really to buy a new head unit unless you just want the toys and gimmicks features

massive ct2 tweeters and crescendo un 6.5. The CT 2s are way better sounding than the sb acoustcs 29rdnc neos which costs more than double the ct-2s. Way more airy and detailed, just need a slight tone down on the 5khz range to sound as natural as possible can get loud enough to hang with 155 db substage with just one set. UN 6.5s arent made for midbass but they do get loud and clear, more loud than you can ever dream of while maintaining decent SQ. Otherwise you are better off with silverflutes than those sb acoustics. Get something with at least 92 db sensitivity or your sundown will drown out your mids and highs.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

cheaper than an oscope and just as effective.

 

[maxmil982]

If you plan on getting a dayton dsp, you dont really to buy a new head unit unless you just want the toys and gimmicks features

massive ct2 tweeters and crescendo un 6.5. The CT 2s are way better sounding than the sb acoustcs 29rdnc neos which costs more than double the ct-2s. Way more airy and detailed, just need a slight tone down on the 5khz range to sound as natural as possible can get loud enough to hang with 155 db substage with just one set. UN 6.5s arent made for midbass but they do get loud and clear, more loud than you can ever dream of while maintaining decent SQ. Otherwise you are better off with silverflutes than those sb acoustics. Get something with at least 92 db sensitivity or your sundown will drown out your mids and highs.

Great info man thanks.... while researching the SA-12 most everyone said it doesnt really play anything above 50-60Hz well, plus I will be tuning it to 31Hz and I'm assuming filtering it for 55Hz and below. With that in mind will there be a gap between 60Hz and say 100Hz in this setup. Maybe I have something wrong in all that but it seems I should be looking for a midwoofer that goes as low as possible.... what do you think?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Great info man thanks.... while researching the SA-12 most everyone said it doesnt really play anything above 50-60Hz well, plus I will be tuning it to 31Hz and I'm assuming filtering it for 55Hz and below. With that in mind will there be a gap between 60Hz and say 100Hz in this setup. Maybe I have something wrong in all that but it seems I should be looking for a midwoofer that goes as low as possible.... what do you think?

low and loud dont go together. Because in order to make a woofer go lower, you need to increase the MMS (mass of the cone) to get a lower FS (make the woofer go lower) But that reduces sensitivity aka how loud a speaker gets. You'll have to choose one or the other or forgo the rear speaker idea and do a 3 way active front stage, have 6.5 inch mids on the kick panels on axis in pods or fiberglass 3 or 4 inch midranges with tweeters in the A pillars and a dedicated midbass in the doors. Its very rough to try and get loud and deep powerful midbass all at once out of a 2 way front.

 

[BCotrell]

Great info man thanks.... while researching the SA-12 most everyone said it doesnt really play anything above 50-60Hz well, plus I will be tuning it to 31Hz and I'm assuming filtering it for 55Hz and below. With that in mind will there be a gap between 60Hz and say 100Hz in this setup. Maybe I have something wrong in all that but it seems I should be looking for a midwoofer that goes as low as possible.... what do you think?

You could do pwx’s instead of the un’s but overall your be trading mid bass potential for loud and clear. Not sure where you’re seeing all the feedback on sa12’s that they don’t do 60-80hz well. Enclosure will ensure optimal frequency response

Even after you find the right driver, the enclosure/sound treatment and power is going to be king for midbass response

also, what’s your Vehicle? Your going a good amount of current.