Upgrade from hertz to vibe / ohms law

Drumznbass

CarAudio.com Newbie
Jun 7, 2019
9
-1
Hey,

ive been running Hertz esk 165.5 2 way components (120rms woofers/150rms tweeters) via the B input on the Hertz DP4 amp at 150rms set using ohms law at 26volts.

the reason I use the B channel is the tops max out at 3,3k the max the tweeters can seem to handle.

this was after running via A channel and going through 5 pairs of blown tweeters and 1 case of repairing blown capacitors on the crossovers.

my tweeters have gone yet again so I'm upgrading to the more powerful Vibe Black Death V6 2 way components rated at 150rms / 420 max and they have tougher tweeters as well. 

My question is, to be safe, do you set gains to the rms or how much can you push the speakers before the tweeters pop?

ive read the manuals and specs but I have no idea what the numbers mean other than rms. 

Are there other factors when setting gains by ohms law and osc scope when it comes to tweeters? 

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
Hey,

ive been running Hertz esk 165.5 2 way components (120rms woofers/150rms tweeters) via the B input on the Hertz DP4 amp at 150rms set using ohms law at 26volts.

the reason I use the B channel is the tops max out at 3,3k the max the tweeters can seem to handle.

this was after running via A channel and going through 5 pairs of blown tweeters and 1 case of repairing blown capacitors on the crossovers.

my tweeters have gone yet again so I'm upgrading to the more powerful Vibe Black Death V6 2 way components rated at 150rms / 420 max and they have tougher tweeters as well. 

My question is, to be safe, do you set gains to the rms or how much can you push the speakers before the tweeters pop?

ive read the manuals and specs but I have no idea what the numbers mean other than rms. 

Are there other factors when setting gains by ohms law and osc scope when it comes to tweeters? 
This is all user error and not optimal setups.

1: you messed up when you involved a test tone and AC voltage method in gain setting for mids and highs. There's absolutely no place for that garbage in mids and highs.

2: With a multi-meter first off 150 x 4 = 600 square root it and its 24.49 volts, you've already set it to clipping with 26 volts. 

3: Whatever AC voltage you set is when the tweeters are disconnected, once connected on an actual load, your amp behaves differently and will have a much different distortion/clipping point. 

4: You dont listen to test tones, using a test tone to tune is absolutely dumb, music is dynamic and has different peaks, you are shooting yourself in the foot with a test tone.

5:  The proper way is to do it by ear, once you hear harsh peakiness in the frequency response or any stress on the tweeters, you've reached your safe spot.You only need it loud enough to bring the sound stage up to eye level.   You'll need to train your ears to detect peakiness, distortion and tweeter/midrange stress. Usually when its loud and stops sounding clean and starts sounding harsh in any way, you are approaching either tweeter or amplifier limits. 

6: Wire them straight to the amp and get an active capable head unit or DSP. Why? You can adjust the crossover points and slopes vs a fixed shitty 12 db slope on the amp and you get time alignment capabilities and level adjustment to get perfect SQ out of your speakers.  

 

Drumznbass

CarAudio.com Newbie
Jun 7, 2019
9
-1
This is all user error and not optimal setups.

1: you messed up when you involved a test tone and AC voltage method in gain setting for mids and highs. There's absolutely no place for that garbage in mids and highs.

2: With a multi-meter first off 150 x 4 = 600 square root it and its 24.49 volts, you've already set it to clipping with 26 volts. 

3: Whatever AC voltage you set is when the tweeters are disconnected, once connected on an actual load, your amp behaves differently and will have a much different distortion/clipping point. 

4: You dont listen to test tones, using a test tone to tune is absolutely dumb, music is dynamic and has different peaks, you are shooting yourself in the foot with a test tone.

5:  The proper way is to do it by ear, once you hear harsh peakiness in the frequency response or any stress on the tweeters, you've reached your safe spot.You only need it loud enough to bring the sound stage up to eye level.   You'll need to train your ears to detect peakiness, distortion and tweeter/midrange stress. Usually when its loud and stops sounding clean and starts sounding harsh in any way, you are approaching either tweeter or amplifier limits. 

6: Wire them straight to the amp and get an active capable head unit or DSP. Why? You can adjust the crossover points and slopes vs a fixed shitty 12 db slope on the amp and you get time alignment capabilities and level adjustment to get perfect SQ out of your speakers.   
Thanks for all that info 👍

with all that expert knowledge would you care to simply answer if the numbers given in manuals other than the rms and peak, are important to look at when gain setting?

 
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Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
Thanks for all that info 👍

with all that expert knowledge would you care to simply answer if the numbers given in manuals other than the rms and peak, are important to look at when gain setting?
none of those numbers are important.

Your own knowledge of your system limits and capabilities is the only thing that matters in this situation.

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
Why? because there's too many factors that change those numbers in car audio, nothing is concrete, you are never getting the power the amp says on the box especially when you play music, real world numbers fluctuate so literally you looking at numbers is a complete waste of time.  I already outlined how to set gains properly for mids and highs earlier.

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
for example i'm running 150 rms to an 80 rms tweeter, 500 rms to a 150 rms midrange and a few hundred on my midbass and 30,000 watts on 4 subs that are 4000 rms each and I dont blow anything for several years with the same system already. Why? because I have clean headroom power,  and I trained my senses to know when any part of my system gets stressed  either smell, sound or touch aka heat.  Things blow because of heat built up and factors like clipping speeds up heat build up.  Overpowering and full tilting to the max would also have high heat build up even if its clean power.  When things build up heat or reach maximum capabilities, you'll notice a lot more distortion in form of the sound getting harsher to the ears, coils will heat up and things will smell(clear clue to turn sh*t down) or you might even start hearing mechanical noise. Your tweeter/mid/sub cones and magnets heating up is also a sign that you need to back sh*t off. amp heating up is also a sign of concern. Even the seasons changing affects your system limits, you cant really play as loud in the summer vs winter because its hot and its harder for your equipment to cool off.

 

Drumznbass

CarAudio.com Newbie
Jun 7, 2019
9
-1
mr aggressive today ain't ya? Has ye fish died or something? 

The only time I've smelt burning is when the capacitors popped once.

other than that the system sounded fine. 

Im running the woofers now at 220rms and they sound brilliant still 

 
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Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
I'll just stick to good old ohms law on these new speakers 
good luck with that. Might also want to brush up on actual real world knowledge vs the noob stuff people direct you towards.  Works the same with mids and highs too. Also use the correct voltage next time with ohms law like i pointed out... The video is a direct example of how your tweeters blew.



 
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Drumznbass

CarAudio.com Newbie
Jun 7, 2019
9
-1
1 minute ago, Jeffdachef said:

good luck with that. Might also want to brush up on actual real world knowledge vs the noob stuff people direct you towards.  Works the same with mids and highs too. Also use the correct voltage next time with ohms law like i pointed out...

Jheez I was off by like 2 volts it was over a year ago and that works out at something like an extra 1-2db doesn't it? I was off by 10watts man.

does it really matter?? Is 2volts worth of memory loss worth talking to me like I haven't a clue what I'm doing?

maybe I should of mentioned I popped all them tweeters during the virgin weeks of the set up and getting greedy and trying to squeeze more power out. Then I got the decent mid level Hertz DP4 which has enough juice for anything I'm ever gonna put in. 

This is why I'm asking about the figures. Anyone who's got any common sense who's involved with music knows a gain isn't a volume knob. So by turning the gain and increasing voltage output of the amp, hits the crossover and when the tweeter components have all failed and the tweeters (but not the woofers) too then obviously I'm curious to understanding what the figures given in the manual relate to how the tweeter side of the signal is the first to pop with no warning, smells or distortion.

you sound like you're into the car audio shit with what you've told me about your set up. You most likely have more knowledge than me but just telling me to listen for distortion when setting gains doesn't help the fact that things are popping before any distortion hits on the tops. 

So on that spec sheet for tweeters some of them numbers must me telling me something. 

Lets stop going round in circles about noob stuff. I've got a sub running well past it's rms and hits over its peak sometimes but sounds great. I just wanna figure out what's happening with the signal from the amp to cause tweeters advertised at 150rms, reduced by 2db at the cross over and set at 3.3k to pop with no prior warning after a year of working fine and not getting rinsed to death?

Signal to noise % 

sensitivity etc 

dont these have a part to play and why isn't the crossover taking care of reducing any extra signal? That's it's job after all. 

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
Jheez I was off by like 2 volts it was over a year ago and that works out at something like an extra 1-2db doesn't it? I was off by 10watts man.

does it really matter?? Is 2volts worth of memory loss worth talking to me like I haven't a clue what I'm doing?

maybe I should of mentioned I popped all them tweeters during the virgin weeks of the set up and getting greedy and trying to squeeze more power out. Then I got the decent mid level Hertz DP4 which has enough juice for anything I'm ever gonna put in. 

This is why I'm asking about the figures. Anyone who's got any common sense who's involved with music knows a gain isn't a volume knob. So by turning the gain and increasing voltage output of the amp, hits the crossover and when the tweeter components have all failed and the tweeters (but not the woofers) too then obviously I'm curious to understanding what the figures given in the manual relate to how the tweeter side of the signal is the first to pop with no warning, smells or distortion.

you sound like you're into the car audio shit with what you've told me about your set up. You most likely have more knowledge than me but just telling me to listen for distortion when setting gains doesn't help the fact that things are popping before any distortion hits on the tops. 

So on that spec sheet for tweeters some of them numbers must me telling me something. 

Lets stop going round in circles about noob stuff. I've got a sub running well past it's rms and hits over its peak sometimes but sounds great. I just wanna figure out what's happening with the signal from the amp to cause tweeters advertised at 150rms, reduced by 2db at the cross over and set at 3.3k to pop with no prior warning after a year of working fine and not getting rinsed to death?

Signal to noise % 

sensitivity etc 

dont these have a part to play and why isn't the crossover taking care of reducing any extra signal? That's it's job after all. 
again. Distortion is not actual static or anything fuzzy or whatever you think it is. Distortion is peaks in the frequency response Most average normal people have no idea what distortion sounds like and think its a huge change, it literally sounds the same but with slightly harsh peaks here and there in the frequency response like if the SSS and SHHH sounds come from smooth and silky to "okay that scratched my ear drum a bit, its pretty loud but it still sounds like normal music"

The only reason why your tweeters popped is because you clipped the amp and signal, they dont pop for no reason. If you watched the video at all and actually learned anything. those 2 volts along with power drop due to voltage drop and having an actual load in the amp would completely put the amp into clipping giving a dirty signal. Tweeters dont just pop and you are too stubborn to admit that its your own user error that popped these tweeters.

Remember that amps are rated at 14.4 volts, your car might even have trouble staying at 13.8 and with the system at full tilt you might even drop down to 12 volt range.... at 12.8 volts the amp is not going to do 150 watts  more like 120 ish, however your gain setting is telling the amp to do 150 watts. Your amp literally is overdriven to hard clipping which means POP bye bye tweeters. No the crossover only splits the signal up, it doesn't magically cure clipping and dirty clipped signals from the amp. You say skip the noob stuff but you literally are just clipping and you have a hard time accepting it.

signal to noise is how susceptible the amp is to alternator whine and hiss noises caused by the vehicle electrical system. The higher the better.

Sensitivity is how loud the speaker gets 

Speaker FS is the lowest it can play meaning your high pass crossover should be double this value for safety reasons for the mids.

Literally none of those values will help you in anything with your gain setting. Its back to square 1. IDK how else to put it. you can just keep doing what you are doing and keep blowing stuff though.

 

Drumznbass

CarAudio.com Newbie
Jun 7, 2019
9
-1
Oh I give up with you mate you just ain't bothering to make an effort to answer my question which was never about setting gains.

i was seeking advice on how to work out by the stats on the spec sheet how far you can push your system or is it safe to stay at the rms and leave it at that. 

Chill out man. Take a break from the internet and this toxic superiority online persona you have. Go for a walk mate, clear your head. There's more to life than this. You can do better I know you can, I believe in you. We all do. You can do it!!!

before you do, you better go wash that sand out of your minge and put a fresh tampon back in.

you crazy little tyke. Such a fun guy.

on a scale of none to all day, how many times do you talk about car audio online ?

ps: the RC1 sound system will blow your set up out the water so calm down throwing out rms myths. Ok? 

Its weekend time so stop being mad at the world and go spend some money on a dirty hooker n have fun 

peace 

 

wew lad

wew lad inc
Mar 22, 2015
5,730
55
MA
Oh I give up with you mate you just ain't bothering to make an effort to answer my question which was never about setting gains.

i was seeking advice on how to work out by the stats on the spec sheet how far you can push your system or is it safe to stay at the rms and leave it at that. 

Chill out man. Take a break from the internet and this toxic superiority online persona you have. Go for a walk mate, clear your head. There's more to life than this. You can do better I know you can, I believe in you. We all do. You can do it!!!

before you do, you better go wash that sand out of your minge and put a fresh tampon back in.

you crazy little tyke. Such a fun guy.

on a scale of none to all day, how many times do you talk about car audio online ?

ps: the RC1 sound system will blow your set up out the water so calm down throwing out rms myths. Ok? 

Its weekend time so stop being mad at the world and go spend some money on a dirty hooker n have fun 

peace 
what in the f**k is the RC1 sound system? 

you were educated on the reality of the world and instead of learning you came off butthurt. people are assholes online, get over it.

some things are simply too complicated and a standard accounting for one factor isn't the answer. a basic understanding of physics would have told you that

 
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Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
what in the f**k is the RC1 sound system? 

you were educated on the reality of the world and instead of learning you came off butthurt. people are assholes online, get over it.

some things are simply too complicated and a standard accounting for one factor isn't the answer. a basic understanding of physics would have told you that
lol looks like a ghetto blaster just like those Brazilian sound systems but on a much smaller scale Weak AF.

 

wew lad

wew lad inc
Mar 22, 2015
5,730
55
MA
lol looks like a ghetto blaster just like those Brazilian sound systems but on a much smaller scale Weak AF.
looks like a club pa system lol not car audio. pressurizing the surrounding atmosphere is a lot different than the cabin of a vehicle..