desertheat
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
haha just teasing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
OP
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
- Thread Starter
- #125
For those that are interested in what exactly is crammed around the speaker baffle in the pictures, it's called non-hardening modeling clay....and this is the exact stuff I used right here: http://216.197.126.114/ProductInfo.htm
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OP
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
- Thread Starter
- #126
....And the Reference mids have landed! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/woot.gif.aaa6090e619a97b6090d16dd863c5a69.gif
And in this corner wearing the read and white shorts, weighing in at an impressively beefy 4 lbs.....
They are currently paired with the Dynaudio MD100 tweeter mounted where the factory sail panel would normally be. So far the sound is the best I've gotten it. The best part is that I can't hear the tweeters in that location.
I have them HP at 80hz at 18db/oct and LP at 2K at 24db/oct. They seem to play nicely up to 2.5khz, but the stage becomes too busy and everthing seems to pile on top of each other. Tweets are HP at 3.15khz at 12db/oct. These points will most likely change at least 147 times in the next week //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Initial listening included the following notes:
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters: Vocals wide open, stage is full and robust, but the drums and cymbals tend to dominate. Need to play with crossover points I think.
Eagles - Hotel California: At the point in the song when the drums come in and you get that dunk-dunk in the right mid, the Performance mids always sounded localized and sort of flat, but with the Refs it sounds more realistic and part of the music.
Madonna - Justify My Love: I can hear the Material Girl panting and breathing in this track like never before!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif The vocal is a bit shut in but that might be due to the tweets up high? The dynamic nature of this disk really shines now...it sounds more alive and fuller than before.
Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem: This seems to be a reference standard to many. What the Reference mids accomplish on this track is stage depth and neutrality. She sings very close to the mic in this recording and that tends to crate a resonance/vibration at certain frequencies. The Performance mids may be more accurate in this respect because that aspect of the music is really noticable - almost annoying really. But with the Refs, that resonance can be heard but it sounds more natural and forgiving.
Overall, in a direct comparison with the Performance mids, the Reference mids....
- Display the vocals more clearly
- Handle 150w per side better
- Fill the cabin with a thicker, richer sound which helps concentrate the sound stage.
- Are able to snap and fade away with greater control.
More comments to come as I get to tuning.
And in this corner wearing the read and white shorts, weighing in at an impressively beefy 4 lbs.....
They are currently paired with the Dynaudio MD100 tweeter mounted where the factory sail panel would normally be. So far the sound is the best I've gotten it. The best part is that I can't hear the tweeters in that location.
I have them HP at 80hz at 18db/oct and LP at 2K at 24db/oct. They seem to play nicely up to 2.5khz, but the stage becomes too busy and everthing seems to pile on top of each other. Tweets are HP at 3.15khz at 12db/oct. These points will most likely change at least 147 times in the next week //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Initial listening included the following notes:
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters: Vocals wide open, stage is full and robust, but the drums and cymbals tend to dominate. Need to play with crossover points I think.
Eagles - Hotel California: At the point in the song when the drums come in and you get that dunk-dunk in the right mid, the Performance mids always sounded localized and sort of flat, but with the Refs it sounds more realistic and part of the music.
Madonna - Justify My Love: I can hear the Material Girl panting and breathing in this track like never before!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif The vocal is a bit shut in but that might be due to the tweets up high? The dynamic nature of this disk really shines now...it sounds more alive and fuller than before.
Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem: This seems to be a reference standard to many. What the Reference mids accomplish on this track is stage depth and neutrality. She sings very close to the mic in this recording and that tends to crate a resonance/vibration at certain frequencies. The Performance mids may be more accurate in this respect because that aspect of the music is really noticable - almost annoying really. But with the Refs, that resonance can be heard but it sounds more natural and forgiving.
Overall, in a direct comparison with the Performance mids, the Reference mids....
- Display the vocals more clearly
- Handle 150w per side better
- Fill the cabin with a thicker, richer sound which helps concentrate the sound stage.
- Are able to snap and fade away with greater control.
More comments to come as I get to tuning.
BodegaBay
10+ year member
AV Enthusiast
Nice, nice Fox. We're on the same time frame experimenting with our "activ"vities! I had a chance to install the Seas W18NX paired with the LPG25NFA in my vehicle and was pleasantly surprised. More tuning is in order but definitely better than passive. I look forward to continuing to see your evolving setup(s)!
OP
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
- Thread Starter
- #128
Thanks. I did have a hard time justifying the cost of these suckers, but thanks to Chadillac I completed the 'mission' //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Plus my Momma always said that if I was good....when I was all growsed up I could get some dem mids with phase plugs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
OP
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
- Thread Starter
- #129
And I will say that the Performance mids are no joke either. They are every bit as good as the Ref's and not far behind.
I also agree with jntar's grade on the build quality of these mids. These are some staunch and meaty drivers. The pictures really do not do them justice until you've had them in your hand. http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128519&highlight=seas
What I was really hoping for was that Seas would provide some actual mouting holes on Ref's. The Perf's came with these ridiculus half-moon mounting slots that make the install unnecessarly challenging. Unfortunately, so did the Refs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif You have to pre-drill your holes and put your screws in first so that you can sort of bank the edge of the driver against something. I found it best to use 4 pan head wood screws on one side and then tapered head drywall screws on the other because they help push the basket toward to the other side as you secure them down to the baffle.
I also agree with jntar's grade on the build quality of these mids. These are some staunch and meaty drivers. The pictures really do not do them justice until you've had them in your hand. http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128519&highlight=seas
What I was really hoping for was that Seas would provide some actual mouting holes on Ref's. The Perf's came with these ridiculus half-moon mounting slots that make the install unnecessarly challenging. Unfortunately, so did the Refs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif You have to pre-drill your holes and put your screws in first so that you can sort of bank the edge of the driver against something. I found it best to use 4 pan head wood screws on one side and then tapered head drywall screws on the other because they help push the basket toward to the other side as you secure them down to the baffle.
alphakenny1
10+ year member
LOTUS FTW!
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
I have been running Lotus RW165 for a few weeks now and after adjusting the x-over for hours finally settling in at 100Hz @ 18db and 1.6KHz @18db while tweeter RT25F at 2.5KHz @ 12dB.
The downside with Lotus Ref is that playing "bad" recording is quite a pain as all the faults are revealed. But the "airy" sound from these speakers are intriguing, they are unlike any other speakers I have listened too.
The downside with Lotus Ref is that playing "bad" recording is quite a pain as all the faults are revealed. But the "airy" sound from these speakers are intriguing, they are unlike any other speakers I have listened too.
Glad to hear you're liking them nutrition freak!!!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
OP
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
- Thread Starter
- #134
See, isn't that what's cool about tuning...you spend hours with the exact same drivers and come up with 100 at 18, 1.6 at 18, and 2.5 at 12. I just spend a solid hour and came up with 80 at 12, 2.5 at 24, and 3.15 at 12.
One thing I noticed with the Performance mids and now with these is that a steep slope on the LP really brings out the snap and depth of the stage. There's quite a difference for me switching from 24db/oct to 18db/oct...really looses it's edge.
And yes MP3's sound like absolute *** now....but on the flip side, really well recorded tracks just kill!!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
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