The Dow is below 7k

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

I have to laugh at investors who were careless about how their money was managed then blame the gov't for thier losses.
Boo-hoo. Their should be no bail out. Investors should learn not to trust money managers. The only way they'll learn is to get burnt.

Investors should get no bailout as it is basically gambling. Its pretty obvious people don't think Obama's stimulus plan is going to help the "odds" in the market at all though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

What ever the gov't tries to do is largely irrelevent. Eventually the market will correct itself. The market is just too big for the gov't to manipulate it with 1-3 trillion dollars.

BTW, no investing is NOT gambling. Too many people think that. It is an intellegent application of capital to buiness needs in exchange for ownership. Knowing where and how your money is being invested is crucial to smart investing.

Blindly giving money to "managers" who built ponzi schemes while bleeding the companies dry is exactly how we got into this mess. It's the investors fault for not demanding to know how thier money was being spent.

Now everyone wants to blame the obama, or the gov't, or poor people buying houses. No, it's the investors fault.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

What ever the gov't tries to do is largely irrelevent. Eventually the market will correct itself. The market is just too big for the gov't to manipulate it with 1-3 trillion dollars.
BTW, no investing is NOT gambling. Too many people think that. It is an intellegent application of capital to buiness needs in exchange for ownership. Knowing where and how your money is being invested is crucial to smart investing.

Blindly giving money to "managers" who built ponzi schemes while bleeding the companies dry is exactly how we got into this mess. It's the investors fault for not demanding to know how thier money was being spent.

Now everyone wants to blame the obama, or the gov't, or poor people buying houses. No, it's the investors fault.

So if its not gambling, you are guaranteed returns right?

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

So if its not gambling, you are guaranteed returns right?

Are you gambling when you get out of bed? Did you get a guaranty that you will live thru the day? There are always risks in life. That is not the same as gambling.

Gambling is a game of chance. Smart investors minimize risks and balance them versus potential rewards. Gamblers can only pray for luck.

In gambling if you play long enough, the house always wins. That is not true of investing.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Are you gambling when you get out of bed? Did you get a guaranty that you will live thru the day? There are always risks in life. That is not the same as gambling.Gambling is a game of chance. Smart investors minimize risks and balance them versus potential rewards. Gamblers can only pray for luck.

In gambling if you play long enough, the house always wins. That is not true of investing.

There are many games of "chance" at a casino that are not pure luck, but require strategy to maximize returns - ask any poker or baccarat player //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

There are many games of "chance" at a casino that are not pure luck, but require strategy to maximize returns - ask any poker or baccarat player //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

The main issue is still luck, not knowledge. Running across a freeway because someone bet you $50,000 you won't make it is luck. Even if you look both ways as you try to make it across, your still gambling with your life.

Going out to get a job and earn $50,000 a year is work, even though you take a small change of being killed on the same freeway on the way to work.

Investing is putting your money to work.

Big difference.

Those who don't know the difference between investing and gambling are the ones who are now crying about thier losses and looking for someone else to blame. While thier money "managers" sip martinis in Dubai.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

My issue is that for derivatives and the like, what's actually being created? It's a zero-sum game, nothing more...

When you have a piece of legislation that passes in 2000 legalizing many forms of highly-risky derivatives such as CDSs, and that legislation includes specific references to bucket shops and other gambling statutes, you have to wonder at how much of a difference there really is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

"Knowledge" is in itself an interesting concept //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

My issue is that for derivatives and the like, what's actually being created? It's a zero-sum game, nothing more...
When you have a piece of legislation that passes in 2000 legalizing many forms of highly-risky derivatives such as CDSs, and that legislation includes specific references to bucket shops and other gambling statutes, you have to wonder at how much of a difference there really is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Some derivatives are legit, or they used to be. If your using your money to leverage against some other interest or market manipulation to create actual wealth that is legit. But somewhere along the way they created these giant hedge funds based on abusrd "derivatives" that were just creative long shot "bets" that only existed on paper. That was just gambling, and usually the "profits" were equally fictitious and were just leveraging credit against the fund to pay "profits" that didn't really exist.

Where we really went wrong was when Greenspan agreed to bail out a giant hedge fund back in the late 90's because they were "too big to be allowed to fail", despite they specialized making the most absurd gambles possible. That paved the way more giant hedge funds and expanding derivatives from real estate and pretending they were real investements.

That led us to where we are now. Investors blindly pouring money into ponzi schemes without knowing where there money was going and what they were buying. Knowing that as long as it's "too big to fail" then the gov't would bail you out no matter how stupid the "gambles".

If the investment is too complicated for you to understand, you shouldn't put your money into it.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

"Knowledge" is in itself an interesting concept //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The gold coins in my safe never concealed debt from me.

They never leveraged credit against future profits to pay dividends and CEO benifits packages today.

They never lied to me about assests and expenses, or paid more in golden parachutes than in profits returned to investors.

They never leverage real assests to invest in high risk hedge funds.

While the market has taken a shit, my coins have nearly trippled in value.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

The control exherted over the price of gold is another interesting story.

 

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

Yes it is. They say the price is just over $1000 per ounce, but you can't buy a 1 ounce coin for $1500. The gov't has stopped selling gold coins.

10 years ago when 1 oz American gold eagles coins were $275 , my finacial advisor mocked my interest in gold. He said gold was dead, and insisted we were already "diversified" because our mutual fund was "diversified". He later went to work for the new Countrywide office, that has now become a thrift clothes shop.

So much for the experts.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

wait until Cap and Trade kicks in on carbon emissions. That all by itself will cost an average household $1200 to $1700 in higher energy costs not including what it will do to the costs of food and other necessities LOL...these idiots in office are a total joke basing everything off consensus

 

[smalltown 10+ year member]

This vs. That, pick your poison I will say. Clinton wasn't too bad, he lied and was almost impeached, correct? I mean if its this vs. that, former president Bush committed the greater of the two evils and got off virtually scott free, right? I mean, he was almost A'shoe"ssinated, *l*, but other than that, nothing much. It's politicians on both sides of the fence, wall-street, but above all, plain greed that has us facing this current situation. It would be a great task for any president. I just hope Obama is a good plastic surgeon, because this country could use a good face lift. The blame shouldn't fall on that man's shoulders. We have to give the situation more time so we can reflect back, and further decide if the decisions made presently will provide a better result in the future. Until then, I don't think harsh judgement should be passed on him. In a metaphoric sense, he's just a rookie still, give him time to get his feet wet. That's all I'm saying.