Sundown Zv.4, DC XL, AQ/SQ HDC4.0, TC5200 comparison|3.7cubes, PR tuned to 25-28hz

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

If having a peaky box is going to annoy you, run it sealed because that's all you will get by porting. If your goal is to eventually recone it with different soft parts the TC is a great option, probably among the best IMHO. For a single sub sealed it's going to be pretty beastly, I've ran several 30+mm xmax subs sealed and honestly for how much real estate they take up, they are impressive and this thing can even take some power compared to what I've used. I'd do the TC for now if you really plan on getting a recone, ask him to bring the Q up a bit so that it wont' be as peaky near tuning. If you dont' plan on doing that, the ZCON looks to fit the box you planned on doing very well. I used a setup out of a trunk that had a similar response to the ZCON you graphed and it was my favorite SQL setup to date.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

If having a peaky box is going to annoy you, run it sealed because that's all you will get by porting. If your goal is to eventually recone it with different soft parts the TC is a great option, probably among the best IMHO. For a single sub sealed it's going to be pretty beastly, I've ran several 30+mm xmax subs sealed and honestly for how much real estate they take up, they are impressive and this thing can even take some power compared to what I've used. I'd do the TC for now if you really plan on getting a recone, ask him to bring the Q up a bit so that it wont' be as peaky near tuning. If you dont' plan on doing that, the ZCON looks to fit the box you planned on doing very well. I used a setup out of a trunk that had a similar response to the ZCON you graphed and it was my favorite SQL setup to date.

x2, these softer suspension woofers with big xmax, like the sundown x and zv.4, tc sounds lms (-r, 5400, maybe axis), re xxx, etc, will reproduce low frequencies with more authority than say a woofer with 15-20 mm xmax. Not saying I'd take sealed over ported, but your thoughts about these style woofers sealed may be slightly skewed because of how most woofers (the ones we know) react in sealed.

 

[Bwap]

Im thinking about going with a PR and tuning low. If I tune the PR to 19.5hz the response 30hz+ is flat.

TC recommends 10-25hz in 3.7cubes tuning when using a PR.

Here is a graph comparing the two. At 30hz where the response is flat for the PR, it has 4db over the sealed.

Passive radiator(purple) vs Sealed(yellow)

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Winisd can't be used like that. I mean it can, but it doesn't mean much here. If you want SQ, aim mid 20's, but I'm not sure how a PR would reproduce "tuned" there.

 

[Bwap]

The TC recommends 10-25hz tuning in 3.7cubes when using a PR.

Will the TC handle the power(Mmats 3500.05) when tuned this low?

Seeing as it takes a lot more power to make db at lower hz, would it even seem peaky to your ear with the PR tuned this low?

^If this is the case would a higher tuning(20-25hz), sound better?

The mmats doesn't have a subsonic filter, should I run Harrison fmods?.. if so what hz would you recommend?

Sorry about all the questions, I don't wanna miss anything lol..

 

[Bwap]

@t3mpest

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The TC recommends 10-25hz tuning in 3.7cubes when using a PR.
Will the TC handle the power(Mmats 3500.05) when tuned this low?

Seeing as it takes a lot more power to make db at lower hz, would it even seem peaky to your ear with the PR tuned this low?

^If this is the case would a higher tuning(20-25hz), sound better?

The mmats doesn't have a subsonic filter, should I run Harrison fmods?.. if so what hz would you recommend?

Sorry about all the questions, I don't wanna miss anything lol..

Can you show me this? Tuned that low you shouldn't need a ssf. My box is 29 hz and my ssf is all the way down at like 10 hz or something, so you should fine.

 

[Bwap]

Can you show me this? Tuned that low you shouldn't need a ssf. My box is 29 hz and my ssf is all the way down at like 10 hz or something, so you should fine.

TC 5200

Hmm so the lower you tune the less of a need for ssf?

 

[Bwap]

Its crazy after modeling HDC4.0 and zcon they seem to have the same bad response to boxes. Is it that subs with this layout on the graph geared more towards spl?

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Ok, I believe the tuning they recommended was for home theater, which is a totally different mindstate than car audio. In car- you have vehicle gain/boost/extra pressure so you don't have to tune as low to play as low (loudly) necessarily.

But generally, yes, the lower you tune, the lower you can play. With a high quality, big xmax woofer typically like 30 hz tuning you can play WELL into 20's without bottoming out. But with that being said, there's not much music that plays below 30 so maybe you should think why tune so far below it? SQ, I'd tune to mid 20's. Buddy on here danometal has a JBL 12 or 15, ported @ 25 hz iirc and it kicks hard and fast, sounds really good in my opinion.

So there's some info, I'm really tired but I could go on and on and on lol.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

When you tune low, that means your sub is getting the box out to help control the cone, so the lower you tune, the more control on low notes. But too low in a car can sound like absolute doo, so that's why I'm saying I don't think you should tune anywhere much below the mid 20's.

 

[Bwap]

Ok, I believe the tuning they recommended was for home theater, which is a totally different mindstate than car audio. In car- you have vehicle gain/boost/extra pressure so you don't have to tune as low to play as low (loudly) necessarily.
But generally, yes, the lower you tune, the lower you can play. With a high quality, big xmax woofer typically like 30 hz tuning you can play WELL into 20's without bottoming out. But with that being said, there's not much music that plays below 30 so maybe you should think why tune so far below it? SQ, I'd tune to mid 20's. Buddy on here danometal has a JBL 12 or 15, ported @ 25 hz iirc and it kicks hard and fast, sounds really good in my opinion.

So there's some info, I'm really tired but I could go on and on and on lol.

Haha thanks for all the info, its crazy the endless amount of questions I always have. They just keep coming, so ill just see if anyone knows this one haha, good night.

Does a 15" sub and a 15" PR have the ability to move as much air as two 15s because its the same cone area?

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Haha thanks for all the info, its crazy the endless amount of questions I always have. They just keep coming, so ill just see if anyone knows this one haha, good night.
Does a 15" sub and a 15" PR have the ability to move as much air as two 15s because its the same cone area?

If it's ported, no.

If it's sealed, possibly. If the power is double and the woofer can effectively use that power.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

But a single PR for a high powered 15 I don't believe is going to work. gckless used two 18" PR's with his two tc 15's and iirc he said he probably could use another one.

 

[Bwap]

But a single PR for a high powered 15 I don't believe is going to work. gckless used two 18" PR's with his two tc 15's and iirc he said he probably could use another one.

Hmm when I model in a second or third PR it doesn't make much of a difference. Why wouldn't it work? lol

The one im using for the model is a 15" psi PR and it has 3.5" xmax