Sundown vs Fi

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Right now I'm running two Tidal Audio REF-TM12.4 subs. Confirmed by Eric Stevens on DIYMA via PMs, they were OEMed by ID and are identical to the ID12V3D4 subs. They only have a couple small cosmetic differences, ie. no cover on magnet, logo, black rather than gray or whatever... etc. I want something a little louder than what I'm currently running but I don't really want to give up my sound quality. I have 1 kW to play with @ 2 ohms and 2.5ish cubes sealed for two subs. I've been comparing the FI X with the SA12. They're roughly the same price. I haven't branched much out into other brands research wise because I've heard nothing but good about both these brands. Your guys input is valued and appreciated. Thanks.

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[Slobalt]

both arent a bad choice imo but I dont have much experince with them. I've heard the sa and they were nice, thats what I would go with.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Dude, this is like picking between fried chicken with ranch or fried chicken with honey mustard. Both are good subs, it's which one you like more here, or maybe the power handling matches up a little better with one than the other.

 

[Full Tilt 10+ year member]

Dude, this is like picking between fried chicken with ranch or fried chicken with honey mustard. Both are good subs, it's which one you like more here, or maybe the power handling matches up a little better with one than the other.

Gotta' love southern analogies. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

I'm a honey mustard kind of guy as long as it's a sweeter sauce to give you an idea...

 

[argenis69 10+ year member]

I personally like my Fi sub.

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

I was originally leaning toward the Fi X. It's definitely a good looking sub. The SA seems to possibly be a little better parameter wise, based on my knowledge (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here). The moving mass of a D2 SA is substantially higher than that of a D2 X, but the Bl is also substantially higher so it should have the same, if not more control. Fs is similar, within a couple Hz. Fi doesn't publish the inductance of the coil where Sundown does. I'd imagine this has to do with Sundown using shorting rings on the SA to help with inductive distortion. I'm guessing the X doesn't have shorting rings. The SA should play cleaner higher than the X because of that, not that higher frequencies really make a huge difference with subs. The X has a slightly higher Xmax, 20 mm vs the SA at 19 mm. I highly doubt one mm is going to make any sort of difference. The X handles more power, according to manufacturer's specs. It's "good" for 750 while the SA is "good" for 600. With the size of the voice coils (3" on the X and 2.5" on the SA), I'd venture to say that both can handle significantly more than rated. That being said, I've got 1038 RMS @ 2 ohms assuming I get a clean, consistent 14.4 volts. That's where my MRV-M1005 bench tested. I've always been afraid that playing too far below a speaker's "rated RMS" will push it no where near it's capabilities. I guess what I mean by that is the power that goes into a speaker has an exponential effect on the driver movement. 500 watts on a driver made to handle 500 watts will be louder than 500 watts on a driver made to handle 1000 watts. I don't have any evidence to support that statement, but for whatever reason, that thought has always been in the back of my head. Lastly, my box is 2.5 cubes sealed, roughly. That falls right within the X's recommended box sizes for sealed applications. It's ever so slightly large for the SA. Now, if you've stuck with this post until here, you've pretty much read everything that's going on in my head related to this decision I'm trying to make. Knowing that, what's your input? Again, thanks in advance for any advice or what have you.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

2.5ish cubes sealed for two subs.

That's your problem then. Don't think you're going to simply throw some other 12's into that size sealed box and get amazing gains.

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Ported isn't always the answer. I know I'll get some pretty decent gains. When I down sized the system and went with dual 4 ohm subs rather than the dual 2s I previously had, output was most definitely affected. I basically want something that's dual 2 again to utilize my amp more than I currently am and gain the output I lost while maintaining the quality of the sound I currently have. I have to say, I disagree with you on that based on experience.

 

[So Low iT Hz]

You're looking at the wrong specs. Vas matters first over everything else. The SA utilizes less airspace, making it much easier to accommodate into an install. That'd be my vote. Then again, neither will be of much use in a sealed application compared to your current driver. Throw as much more power into it as you want it's still going to have diminishing gains. When I do installs for SA series woofers in SQ setups I still go ported, just I tune down in the mid 20s. Really has a large frequency range in that orientation. If you want to stick with sealed maybe try the Sundown SD-12s. I'm doing an install of three SD-10s into a Mercedes C300 this weekend. My first experience with the woofer I have high expectations... Only running a SAZ-1200 at .66 so nothing crazy, but it should sound nice. And look even better //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Let me know how those SDs work out for your install. As far as my box goes, I'm not changing it. I'd rather find subs that'll work decently in it. I had the box custom made to fit where the spare tire in my car goes in order to keep trunk space. As far as diminishing returns on the power being thrown at the speakers, I understand and expect that. I'm not looking to set any records or have an SPL car. I know my old 06 CVXs were louder than my TAs I have in there now in the same box. At the time, I wanted clarity and that was it. I want to keep the clarity I have but get back to being at the same output I was previously at. Switching to a sub that handles more power and has the capabilities to present a 2 ohm load to my amp when wired up with another should allow for that. As far as Vas goes, the SA has a stiffer suspension than the X. That falls in line with the sub not needing a larger box and thus brings me back to my worry. I'm roughly a half a cube too big for a pair of SAs. I think I'll contact Jacob and ask his opinion on the matter.

 

[treesive 10+ year member]

get a pair of SSA DCON's. The buildhouse is FI and they should work well in your application. Get the d2's to wire at 2 ohms. Might look into the Gcons as well for a couple bucks more but know the dcon will like that size box and sound good with good output.

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Thanks! I'll start researching those right now.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

get a pair of SSA DCON's. The buildhouse is FI and they should work well in your application. Get the d2's to wire at 2 ohms. Might look into the Gcons as well for a couple bucks more but know the dcon will like that size box and sound good with good output.

I didn't know that but that makes a bunch of sense.

 

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

I'll second the vote for SSA, but would wait if you're planning on going DCON as they're prototyping the new versions as we speak. As Aaron has put it, they have a sound signature very similar to Adire which I happen to think is kinda awesome.

If you can swing the extra cash, I would go for the GCON over the DCON, but then you're not comparing apples to apples against the Sundown. Regardless, what I respect SSA for is the versatility of their subs as they perform admirably in both sealed and ported enclosures. Also, Aaron and Mark are very accessible and have no reservations against answering any and all questions, regardless of how dumb you might think they are.

FWIW, I have a SSA ICON 10" and an Incriminator DP 18" on the way to me (saving the IA for a large vehicle build). Now might actually be an awesome time to get in on the Black & Blue sale where the 12" IA Lethal Injection can be had for less than $200, making it very damn competitive with the Sundown. Feel free to ask @denim ; about ordering details if that's the route you want to take (or just order from the SSA store).