Sundown saz3000 or crunch gp3000d pro

[profundus-sanus 10+ year member]

The MM4000.1 is a larger amp than the SAZ-3000D
I have never seen a SAZ-3000D get hot, ever. You must have hooked it up wrong. I have seen quite a few of them too, considering I have been working on them since they came out, they don't get hot unless something was wrong with them, even then it's rare for them to get hot. WTF does the Sun have to do with it? LOL, they are mounted in a trunk normally, out of the sunlight....

SAZ-3000D > GP3000DPro

Mounting your amp on a rack is a good idea. However, even then the FETs are likely to break the legs off from vibration in the GP3000D Pro. Good luck with yours. You can mount my refurb SAZ-3000D's to a speaker box if you want, go ahead I dare you to try to vibrate on of those apart. I haven't ever seen one of my refurbs come back with broken legs on the FETs. Go ahead, mount it to the box and try it, we will warranty it if you break it...

hooked up wrong? how is that possible? You've got to be joking.... Does

look like its hooked up wrong? Maybe thats why the pair was barely louder than a single mm4000 tho right? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
I chose to stick with maxxsonics for a reason //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[dbeez 5,000+ posts]

Guess you don't have much of a hookup at all.. I can get them for less then 800 (not going to put exact price in case there's some sort of minimum price point Jacob allows) with 2 year warranty from an authorized dealer. It's quite a drive up there to get it, but still.

i am a certified dealer thats a hook up..

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

thats pretty surprising, considering my mm4000 was only .2 db quieter than 2 saz3k and over 2 db's louder than 1 saz3k

My first guess would be that you just didn't dial in the 3000s fully, perhaps you didn't spend enough time tweaking them.

It's fairly unlikely that the MM4000 is 66% more powerful than the SAZ-3000D for a 2 dB gain. In reality it tends to call for more than 66% to yield 2 dB... so that would mean the MM4000 has to do over 5000 watts at right around 12.0 volts flat - which I am sure we can agree is unlikely.

In your setup a 1 to 1 swap is also not possible as the MM4000 is a 2 ohm amp and the 3000 is a 1 ohm amp. The strapped pair could be dropped in - but for two amps with identical output transistor counts (and the same part number) its hard to swallow that TWO of one model is only 0.2 louder unless your sub-woofer setup was maximized and no longer gaining from additional power.

For this conversion to be accurate if the sub setup was not maximized you are looking at a claimed output for the MM4000 of nearer to 6000 watts RMS at 12.0 volts to be about 0.2 dB down from two 3000Ds.

Just saying //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I am sure with some more tweaking you could have gotten better results out of the 3000s in your setup!

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

ouch!

 

[Calikid 5,000+ posts]

My first guess would be that you just didn't dial in the 3000s fully, perhaps you didn't spend enough time tweaking them.
It's fairly unlikely that the MM4000 is 66% more powerful than the SAZ-3000D for a 2 dB gain. In reality it tends to call for more than 66% to yield 2 dB... so that would mean the MM4000 has to do over 5000 watts at right around 12.0 volts flat - which I am sure we can agree is unlikely.

In your setup a 1 to 1 swap is also not possible as the MM4000 is a 2 ohm amp and the 3000 is a 1 ohm amp. The strapped pair could be dropped in - but for two amps with identical output transistor counts (and the same part number) its hard to swallow that TWO of one model is only 0.2 louder unless your sub-woofer setup was maximized and no longer gaining from additional power.

For this conversion to be accurate if the sub setup was not maximized you are looking at a claimed output for the MM4000 of nearer to 6000 watts RMS at 12.0 volts to be about 0.2 dB down from two 3000Ds.

Just saying //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I am sure with some more tweaking you could have gotten better results out of the 3000s in your setup!

pwned!!!!!

 

[Calikid 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

If you break it down into numbers you can see what is likely and what isn't. I know that profundus knows what he is doing - but he may not have spent enough time dialing in the 3000s - that is all I am saying here.

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

I've got 3 of the MM4000.1's here at my shop and looking at the inside of them I'd say they are 20-25% more powerful than a single SAZ-3000D. They have an output section the size of the IA 40.1, but with a power supply that is about 20% smaller than an IA 40.1's power supply, but about 20% larger than the power supply in the SAZ-3000D. However, the output section in the MM4000.1 is split into two channels that can be wired to get a signal on both output wires, which would be like strapping two amps together, which as we all know makes gobs more power at 1 ohm. Did you have your MM4000.1 running as "mono" or dual? If you ran it mono at 1 ohm you are exceeding it's capabilities and it likely won't last long like that, maybe for burps, but I doubt daily, would heat up quick.

Being totally unbiased here, it "is" hard to believe, even if you ran the MM4000.1 as mono at 1 ohm, compared to a "pair" of SAZ-3000D's and didn't see a pretty good gain in output, perhaps you had reached limitations of your subs, and just couldn't get anymore out of it.

Rather than bicker back and forth about gaining or losing something like .2db, you need to actually "clamp" the amplifiers with the proper equipment and measure your output voltages and currents, calculate your actual impedances etc, to see what kind of numbers the amps are producing "for real". Any gain or loss in your dB could be subject to constraints of your subwoofer setup or your particular vehicle/electrical system. Not putting you down, or your setup, just saying there is a "proper" way to measure amplifier output and it has nothing to do with what dB your subs produce. But being that you are likely an SPL competitor I know the only number that matters to "you" is your dB numbers, but as far as gauging an amplifiers performance and doing comparisions, you do it with a current clamp and a voltmeter, and an oscilloscope to monitor for clipping, not by a particular vehicles dB performance.

 

[mjf 10+ year member]

chris, random out of my curiosity, if i was to send you a brand new working gp3k, would it be possible to upgrade a parts in order to make it a stronger amplifier?

i couldnt afford to do this at the moment, but im just curious

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

I can't make it produce anymore output than it does, and the power supply FETs and output FETs are pretty much the best it can use, there are some heavier rated power supply FETs availible, but I don't think it will actually help the amp much, as it likely will never exceeed the capabilities of what is already in it under normal operating circumstances. What I can do, is take it apart, and do some seriously tedious soldering on all the mosfets and rectifiers to make them pretty much "vibration resistant" so it won't break on you just because of vibration. I do it all the time on the IA 40.1's, Memphis 4K's and they never come back here after doing that. I get so many people sending in their 4K's and IA 40.1's saying "I killed my amp with "low voltage"", but when I go to disassemble the amp, FETs are ALWAYS falling out of the amp onto the floor.... Vibration damage.... Not low voltage damage, is what is the #1 killer of those amps, as they all use the 90 degree FET mounting. Good news is YES, I can improve upon that to make your amp last much longer in a "normal" operating environment, you may still be able to break it in a 160dB SPL monster machine, but a lot less likely, and near impossible to break it in vehicles with much less vibration going on.

 

[jdmferio13 10+ year member]

i own a crunch 3000dpro now and i love it have it on my fully loaded btl.it gets loud as hell.(1)thing i can say is at full or high tilt its sound quality is bad doesnt even sound good.another thing where is the sundown 3000d for 575$ i will buy that thing thats a deal

 

[mjf 10+ year member]

I can't make it produce anymore output than it does, and the power supply FETs and output FETs are pretty much the best it can use, there are some heavier rated power supply FETs availible, but I don't think it will actually help the amp much, as it likely will never exceeed the capabilities of what is already in it under normal operating circumstances. What I can do, is take it apart, and do some seriously tedious soldering on all the mosfets and rectifiers to make them pretty much "vibration resistant" so it won't break on you just because of vibration. I do it all the time on the IA 40.1's, Memphis 4K's and they never come back here after doing that. I get so many people sending in their 4K's and IA 40.1's saying "I killed my amp with "low voltage"", but when I go to disassemble the amp, FETs are ALWAYS falling out of the amp onto the floor.... Vibration damage.... Not low voltage damage, is what is the #1 killer of those amps, as they all use the 90 degree FET mounting. Good news is YES, I can improve upon that to make your amp last much longer in a "normal" operating environment, you may still be able to break it in a 160dB SPL monster machine, but a lot less likely, and near impossible to break it in vehicles with much less vibration going on.

that answers my questions perfectly though, appreciate it

 

[audioatg 10+ year member]

Crazyness the everyone hates the GP3000d. But the amp has sold out countless times. Go on dbdrag forum and everyone loves them. I must be missing somthin.

O and I make this comment without reading all of the pages of comments.

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

Crazyness the everyone hates the GP3000d. But the amp has sold out countless times. Go on dbdrag forum and everyone loves them. I must be missing somthin.O and I make this comment without reading all of the pages of comments.

Well no wonder you don't know why everyone hates on them.

People appreciate their price, but not their quality.

 

[audioatg 10+ year member]

I wounder How many GP's have been sold. And how many of them had the FET problems. I havent read to many complaints on dbdrag forum about their quality though. Just on here. And thats only a few ppl here and there. Seeing how many they have sold.