Subwoofer suggestions please! Yes I have included the details no one ever does!

[vector 10+ year member]

I am creating a system for a daily driver for my hour drive to work. It will be going into a 1995 Lexus ES300. I am thinking about 2 12's in a sealed box in the trunk. I need to be able to fit two golf bags in the trunk with the box, so I am limited to about 3 ft3 and would prefer around 2.5 ft3. I value sound quality over spl, however I would like the system to be able to hit at least 135db which is about what the system in my other car can do.

My head unit is a Kenwood DDX-418. I will be using the built in amp with high pass/Low pass filters to power the Morel 6x9's and 6.5 components that I found linked here for front stage.

I was just about to pull the trigger on a MB quart 1500d mono amp, 2 Hifonics Brutus BRZ12D4 12" subs and a Cadence wk41 4 gauge wiring kit for $350.47 shipped.

I will be building the box myself and am very good with wood working.

I have modeled about 50 subs in winisd and bassboxpro and I just can't find anything that will get as loud and with as smooth frequency response as the hifonics for the dirt cheap price.

Before I pulled the trigger, I figured I should ask everyone for there opinions.

Can you recommend a system that will beat this for the price? Or equal it with better quality? Or beat it for more money but provide better value somehow?

*edit* One last thing I listen to mostly dubstep and love sub 30hz hits! However I also get tired of dubstep and listen to classical, blues, bluegrass, jazz and a little opera so I would hate slow subs...

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[Moofs 10+ year member]

I'd pass on those subs if you want good SQ. With that kinda trunk space I'd look into two 10's or maybe 2 8's. Both subs are known to be louder than they seem. Check out SSA dcons, 2 of their 10's would be good with that amp or make two Sa-8's. Both will be good in sealed, especially the Dcons. But along with the music you listen too, I'd probably go with a ported. Especially for dubstep, since from what I understand for a sealed box to go low you need to make it decently big.

Also, dont get that amp kit, the wire is rly more of an 8g rather than 4g. Get an amp kit from knu. A complete one with everything for install is like 50. I know it'll cost a little more than you want to spend but it'll be worth it in the end. I totally understand the budget thing, I'm building my car with only $600 or so. I'm not gonna recommend anything crazy over priced to you.

good luck, hopefully more ppl chime in.

BTW: why not just get one good 12inch?

 

[vector 10+ year member]

I appreciate the advice on the cables and have decided to get the Knu amplifier kit. I did not realize the other kit was copper coated aluminum.

I checked out the Dcon's however the ones that model in winisd or bassboxpro with similar output, are almost 3 times as expensive. Will the Hifonics sound that much worse?

Thank you for your reply! I have never had the opportunity to listen to most of these subs and value the advice of those that have.

Honestly if there are no subs that anyone likes with similar output and money I will probably just buy 2 12" type R's, as that is what I have in my other car and I am happy with them.

That being said you can almost buy 4 of the Brutus 12" for the same price as 2 type r's...

 

[Ryan shaw 10+ year member]

tc sounds lms r or tc 3000. dc level 3 would be nice for less power, fi q is also a good choice

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

2 SSA Dcon 10s d4 coils - 115 each

Audiopipe Monoblock - 102

high quality 4g wire kit - 27

add a little more for shipping and figure 100-120 for a custom made box

This fits the space that you want with excellent sq and should play well into the 130s.

Links:

DCON-10 D4

Audiopipe APSM1300 1000 RMS Mono Mini Amplifier

4 gauge amplifier installation kit

BassinBuick on here ran 2 dcon 10s in 2.5cu/ft tuned to 32hz to 800wrms (iirc) and they killed the lows and have excellent sq. He posted some vids, I'm too lazy to look them up.

 

[mylows10 5,000+ posts]

look at the dc level 2 or 3 and look at some of the ascendant woofers too , like the chaos or assassins

 

[Moofs 10+ year member]

Pass on the type r's. You might as well get audioque SDC's instead, will sound better but then again I hear they arent the idea SQ sub. Listen to what is said above.

And again, why not just one sub? Get something like an SA-12 or a IA lethal injection, those things will slam. Both under 200.

1 decently loud, great sounding sub > 2 bad sounding louder subs.

and correct me guys if I'm wrong, but forget about this website/graph your plugging the info into. Things such as the enclosure, how you face it, where you put the sub, type of vehicle, etc will all determine how your sub plays/sounds so what that generator shows you wont be 100% accurate if I understand what your saying.

 

[Moofs 10+ year member]

Double post

 

[vector 10+ year member]

Well you guys have convinced to give up my super cheap bass dream, and just offer to buy a couple of the subs in the classifieds...

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I do not get the need to hit 135dB SPL, whatever that means. This can seriously limit your choices. Moreover, it's been proven again and again that a carefully selected single 12 inch subwoofer can work fine for SQ or SQL. A second subwoofer adds just 3dB while eating up tons of trunk space. Lexus ES is a midsize car, so even a stricly SQ subwoofer can go louder than what's necessary blend with the front stage. However, if you want a subwoofer with good quality sound that can also "hit hard" when necessary look at these:

Image Dynamics IDMAX

JL Audio W7

RE Audio XXX

All three are highly popular and there are tons of reviews online (most highly positive). Skip Hifonics or anything else cheap, it's just not in the same league with these.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

Both will be good in sealed, especially the Dcons. But along with the music you listen too, I'd probably go with a ported. Especially for dubstep, since from what I understand for a sealed box to go low you need to make it decently big.

Whether a sealed subwoofer can play deep bass with authority entirely depends on the specific subwoofer and box alignment. It's a misconception that sealed boxes don't play deep bass well. I think any decent sub with >12xmax should do it. One good example is RE Audio Subs, specially SE or SE/x series or JBL Power series, but there are many others. Due to cabin gain, a typical midsize car with an average subwoofer in sealed box will have a peak in its bass response at around 40Hz. Playing 30Hz loud should be doable with the right sub/box/amp. And below 30Hz.. well, I am not entirely convinced there is enough music content to be worried about that range. At any rate, a decent sealed sub should have no problems hitting low notes well beyond what's necessary to blend with the front stage. Ported subwoofer results in a flat bass response down to its tuned frequency _outside_ of car, but a heavy, exaggerated response inside of car.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Those modeling programs do not/can not take into account the transfer function of the vehicle, so they will (almost) always model with lower output than a system that has been metered inside your car. Two decent 10's, or one solid 12 shouldn't have much problem hitting mid 130's, as that is a relatively modest goal.

With your budget, and your goal (SQ over output), Id probably look into getting one nice 12 instead of two decent 10's. But both setups have their own advantages that we can elaborate more on if you want us too.

Ported enclosures can be designed to display a relatively flat response in-vehicle, its just usually a bit more complicated design process, and potentially requires some processing to get just right. That's not to say that a sealed enclosure wouldn't necessarily benefit from processing too however.

I would highly recommend ditching the idea of powering your mids/highs with the deck's built-in amplifier. They are weak amps, and tend to distort well before reaching even that modest output potential. If you want SQ, you should focus more on the mids/highs, and their amplification, than you should worry about the subwoofer.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I would highly recommend ditching the idea of powering your mids/highs with the deck's built-in amplifier. They are weak amps, and tend to distort well before reaching even that modest output potential. If you want SQ, you should focus more on the mids/highs, and their amplification, than you should worry about the subwoofer.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Not to mention, a good bass can not exist without good midbasses, and they need a good amount of power. The bass definition or detail is often a function of a midbass. On a lot of music types (e.g. probably most of modern rock), this is really the primary bass driver with the subwoofer adding only a bit of warmth to guitar notes and some impact feel for kick drums for realism. In that case, swapping mids for better owns could make a night and day difference while swapping the sub, not necessarily so much.

 

[vector 10+ year member]

I thought I would update this thread with what I ended up buying and building and my results.

First to answer some of the other posts I ignored, sorry, I went off to buy and build! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I wanted roughly 135db as that is what the system in my BMW M3 will hit and I was decently happy with that output.

I ended up finally buying a single 15" TC sounds 3000. I bought it locally used from a guy in Boulder who I think may be Ryan Shaw who posted above? I don't know.

Anyway I am really happy with the sub itself to get that out of the way. It is amazing. However there is a story and some questions for you guys.

I bought the sub and the mb quart onyx 1500d that I suggested above. I built a 3 cubic foot box tuned to 28hz as was recommended to me by TC sounds. The sub is wired to 1.5 ohm and the amp sees about 1.8 with box rise. I decided to also put an amp in for my front stage so I installed a 4 channel rockford fosgate amp for the Morels.

After I got the system installed, I immediately realized I would have to upgrade my electrical system. When I had the system playing really hard dubstep at volume the lights would not only dim but almost go dark. So I did the big 3 leaving the original wiring in place too. I then upgraded my factory 65 amp alternator to a 150 amp alternator that I bought from Toyota as a direct fit. I upgraded the battery and installed a capacitor. I bought the best knu concept wiring kit of ebay for the amp runs and used welding cable for the big 3. So now the lights don't dim unless I have the system all the way up. I work for HP as an engineer so I have access to all the test equipment I need, which I used to set levels (yes I used a 30,000 dollar oscilloscope to set car stereo levels,lol) balance all the channels and then proceeded on to trying to create ruler flat frequency response...

Now I know this is an impossible mission in a car but I came pretty close when I did the system in my M3. So I started taking measurements and then trying to eq out some of the worst humps and dips. Most of the range I have very flat however I have a drop from 50 to 60hz that is 13db! No matter what eq adjustments I make this will not change!

I have tried eqing 50hz down, 60hz up, sub facing forward, sub facing back, sub facing sideways, sub facing up, opening the passthrough in my rear seat, and finally went and dynamatted my car. Still have the same result.

I then read about the TC 3k having an inductance problem right at 50hz and just to see if that was the problem, put the 2 12 inch type r's from my M3 into the lexus. Same dip! Agh!

I will say I wasn't impressed at all with the new system since my M3 with all alpine sounded so much better. Then after swapping the type R's into the lexus and the TC 3k into my M3 I realized the TC 3k sounded vastly better than the type R's! It was the Lexus that sounded horrible! I am out of ideas now. I can't stand the bass this car has now, as I love dubstep and this frequency response is making it sound horrible.

Any ideas? Honestly if I can't fix this I will sell the car, I spend 2hrs everyday in it listening to music and don't want to put the mileage on my bmw.

 

[Ryan shaw 10+ year member]

hey man, i don't remember selling one recently but i definitely am the only one here with tc stuff haha, refresh my memory? and if you wanted i could take a look and give my 2 cents