Subs not performing as well as they should - Expecting too much?

[gmcbpi]

Hi all!

I don't know if I'm crazy or expecting too much for too little, but my subwoofers just don't seem loud when others in a similar configuration do.

So, I have a clarion cz200 headunit, Audiopipe APSM-1300 amplifier, and 2 4 ohm kicker compvr 12s (2007 ones) in a seperate chamber sealed box (don't know volume). I used Knuconceptz 4 gauge wire to install the amp and whatnot.

I've set the gain as follows:

1. Unhook subs from amplifier. Since the amp has two speaker terminals, I assumed it wired them down to 1 ohm.

2. Play 50hz tone from aux port (maybe this is my problem) at 75% volume (in my case 30/40), subwoofer control on radio at +6, bass knob at max even though I don't listen to that volume.

3. While that's playing, take dmm and adjust gain knob till voltage reads 28.2v (800w (total) x 1 ohm (final impedance))

4. turn down volume, turn off car, rehook subs, play...

It just doesn't seem loud. And I know bass boost eqs aren't good AT ALL, but just to see, I happened to turn on the impact one. And well, they slammed. I'm keeping it off for obvious reasons, but is there anything that I'm doing wrong?

Also, here's some misc specs about radio and car: Radio has 2v RCA outs and car has 90 amp alt.

And one more thing: If I only listen to my music at 25/40 max, would it be ok to set the gains with dmm from there?

Thanks for your time.

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[Jaguar 10+ year member]

What are the dimensions (height/width/depth) of the enclosure? What gauge of speaker wire are you using inside of the box(subwoofer to terminal)?

What gauge of speaker wire are you using from the outside of the enclosure terminals to the amp. Is your sealed enclosure sealed within your trunk?

If not have you tried listening with the seats in the back seat down. What are the dimensions of your trunk space? Every little bit helps, from the amp

woofer, enclosure etc. You're sure to get closer to where you want to go in increments with upgrades. I would strongly suggest the Big 3 Upgrade if

you need an upgrade in wire. Use no less than 12G wire for speaker wiring inside / outside of the enclosure. Numerous threads on this forum which

might help, videos on YouTube which break down Big 3 Installation that can guide you.

[video=youtube;p82xRzCr-lc]

 

[gmcbpi]

Hi! I feel like I solved the problem, but there's still some more I can squeeze out of this setup. Here's how it went.. I was tearing my hair out, thinking... So I took the subs out of the box to look at the wiring.. I don't know if they were wired correctly or not, but looking back, maybe not. So, I started from scratch and wired them individually to 2 ohms. I also noticed that for both of the terminals, there was electrical tape covering them probably so they wouldn't fall out... But on the right one, it didn't look so good... it looked burnt or something on the actual wire, so I replaced that with some 10 gauge I had laying around. Actually, all the speaker wire there looks corroded on the ends. I put it back together and set the gain with the volume at 25/40 because I don't listen to it past that one a regular basis...It seems to have made a big difference or is the best placebo ever! I don't know. But it makes me question the wiring inside the enclosure. So I'll definitely work on that more tomorrow.

But to answer your other questions, here goes!

The enclosure as measured by a ruler were approximately 2.5 ft x 1 ft x 1 ft.

The gauge for speaker wire INSIDE ENCLOSURE is 12 gauge. For this, can I get any 10 gauge copper wire or does it have to be specific speaker wire? I have some 10 gauge wire lying around somewhere.

The size wire from terminals to amp is 16 gauge, as it came with the knuconcept kca wiring kit.

As for the box, it is sealed inside my trunk for the most part. I can pull down a seat to get access to the trunk.

I'm not too sure of the dimensions of the trunk space..

One more thing: The ground I'm using for my amp is a shared ground point. There are other wires connected to it. Is that bad?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jaguar 10+ year member]

Well, most of the problem lies in your answer, but like I suggested before, it's not necessary for your mental to take the toll of upgrading your entire system at once.

Be patient, do it right and do it in increments you can't lose. According to you the dimensions of your box are 30" width x 12" height x 12" depth, the cubit air volume

(the dimensions of air space within the enclosure for your subs to operate in) is not enough to bring out the potential of those woofers. Some people might be quick

to tell you those woofers ****, but they don't, not if they are in the proper enclosure (proper wiring, proper amp), you have to learn how to bring out the potential

in what you have. Those subs are 400RMS/800Peak 4 OHM DVC. Also have to look at the material it's made from. Next time you are beside your box knock on it, if

you hear an echo or it feels hollow it might be time for you to look into getting a custom enclosure made, preferably slot-ported.

What you are looking for is a box made out of at least 3/4th MDF. Trust me when you knock on a box made properly out of MDF you won't hear an echo. The boxes

made out of sound deadening material give the subwoofers the housing to perform at max capability without the added dimension of distortion the vibration a box

made out of particle board might have. I would definitely upgrade all that 16 gage speaker wire to at least 12. You said you opened the box to find some corrosion,

for now you can re-clip and re-strip the ends and re-insert them, but if I were you Id definitely make an investment into some OFC (oxygen free copper).

Check out eBay for KnuKonceptz Karma Twisted Pair 12 Gauge OFC Speaker Cable. New wire, new box, but if you want to upgrade your system and are on a budget

you definitely want to look into the Big 3 upgrade. Potentially can boost your system up to 25%. Oh, almost forgot, yes definitely recommend you try listening to your

system with the seats down, it probably will not have an acoustic advantages having a ported box would, but the bass will still become louder and cleaner to extents.

Good luck.

 

[gmcbpi]

Thanks for all your help!

A few things about the ported enclosure for these subs: How many cubic feet would I have to give these subs and at what frequency to sound loud?

And are there any diagrams here for a ported enclosure that would match for the subs? I know a carpenter that would happily help me build a box.

 

[UnderFire 10+ year member]

The CVR's are not at all picky about their enclosures, I've heard the 15's in 2.5 cubes and the 10's in 3 cubes, anything from 1.6-2.2 per sub should work great for them depending on the space you have to work with.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

2. Play 50hz tone from aux port (maybe this is my problem) at 75% volume (in my case 30/40), subwoofer control on radio at +6, bass knob at max even though I don't listen to that volume.

Why did you set the bass knob and subwoofer volume so high? I think that blindly setting subwoofer level to the maximum is a BAD advise. True, on some head units, the subwoofer volume is an attenuation device. However, this is not true for all decks. I have Kenwood X994. The RCA outs are supposed to be 4V. I set the subwoofer level to 0db, played a test tone, and measured voltage on the RCA out with DMM. I got 3.7V, which should be more or less spot on for a 4V head unit.

Next thing is.. what does the "bass knob" do? Is the different from the subwoofer level? IMO try tuning with all of these settings on off/neutral.

 

[gmcbpi]

Why did you set the bass knob and subwoofer volume so high? I think that blindly setting subwoofer level to the maximum is a BAD advise. True, on some head units, the subwoofer volume is an attenuation device. However, this is not true for all decks. I have Kenwood X994. The RCA outs are supposed to be 4V. I set the subwoofer level to 0db, played a test tone, and measured voltage on the RCA out with DMM. I got 3.7V, which should be more or less spot on for a 4V head unit.
Next thing is.. what does the "bass knob" do? Is the different from the subwoofer level? IMO try tuning with all of these settings on off/neutral.

I set it with a DMM though. Those were the settings to get the maximum amp usage so to speak so I can set it lower without clipping. So wouldn't setting the subwoofer volume to +6 after tuning with a DMM cause clipping? But to answer the question about the bass knob, it's basically the volume, not bass boost or anything.

I can definitely try setting the gain again with the subwoofer level at 0 on the radio and the bass knob at max, if that's what you think would set me in the right direction.