Subs for some midbass?

[Roland 10+ year member]

I like SQ Loud. My 6.5" door speakers are fantastic but i play my music loud and I'd like to ease some of the load off them. Right now they are crossed at 80hz & 24 slope. I also am not very keen on the vibration from the door speakers on my leg. So i'm thinking this idea might solve both these issues.

I'm wondering if Subs could do a better job form 120hz to 80hz than 6.5"s can.

So here's the deal. I'm thinking of placing 2 subs directly behind the seats in my van. They would be toward the outer edge of the seats as far outwards as than can be facing forward. I'm considering angling them close to 45 degrees to partially face the door rather than the back of the seat. And/or porting them so the port is pointed at the door.

Looking for some feedback on this idea? Thanks

The subs i was thinking of using are the Pioneer TS-W1200PRO which i hear Very good thing about.

I do have have some subs on the shelf that i could try for this application.

2 Image Dynamic 10" IDQ10D2 version 2. ( i bought them used am im not sure if they are IDQ10 or ID10)

I also have 2 Stereo Integrity BM IV's.

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[LongThrow]

I like SQ Loud. My 6.5" door speakers are fantastic but i play my music loud and I'd like to ease some of the load off them. Right now they are crossed at 80hz & 24 slope. I also am not very keen on the vibration from the door speakers on my leg. So i'm thinking this idea might solve both these issues.
I'm wondering if Subs could do a better job form 120hz to 80hz than 6.5"s can.

So here's the deal. I'm thinking of placing 2 subs directly behind the seats in my van. They would be toward the outer edge of the seats as far outwards as than can be facing forward. I'm considering angling them close to 45 degrees to partially face the door rather than the back of the seat. And/or porting them so the port is pointed at the door.

Looking for some feedback on this idea? Thanks

The subs i was thinking of using are the Pioneer TS-W1200PRO which i hear Very good thing about.

I do have have some subs on the shelf that i could try for this application.

2 Image Dynamic 10" IDQ10D2 version 2. ( i bought them used am im not sure if they are IDQ10 or ID10)

I also have 2 Stereo Integrity BM IV's.

Do you have coaxials on your 6.5s? or a component set? Make some door pods or some kick panels, add in some 8 inch neo pros, or some 8 inch dedicated mid bass driver rated 63-400 hz maybe? That way you can keep your door speakers with your mids/highs, sub with the low bass, while the 8 inch drivers in the kick panels handle the midbass. Sound deadening is a must of course. You might need another amp unless you have a 4 channel, are you wanting to run active or passive crossovers?

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

Do you have coaxials on your 6.5s? or a component set? Make some door pods or some kick panels, add in some 8 inch neo pros, or some 8 inch dedicated mid bass driver rated 63-400 hz maybe? That way you can keep your door speakers with your mids/highs, sub with the low bass, while the 8 inch drivers in the kick panels handle the midbass. Sound deadening is a must of course. You might need another amp unless you have a 4 channel, are you wanting to run active or passive crossovers?

No my 6.5's are SB Acoustic's Satroi. No room in the kicks. Door pods would be good idea for the Satori's, but im not up to biulding out doors.

What do you think about the sub idea?

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

Do you have coaxials on your 6.5s? or a component set? Make some door pods or some kick panels, add in some 8 inch neo pros, or some 8 inch dedicated mid bass driver rated 63-400 hz maybe? That way you can keep your door speakers with your mids/highs, sub with the low bass, while the 8 inch drivers in the kick panels handle the midbass. Sound deadening is a must of course. You might need another amp unless you have a 4 channel, are you wanting to run active or passive crossovers?

I got deadening covered. I'm running a DEQ.8 DSP and i have enough amps

 

[LongThrow]

No my 6.5's are SB Acoustic's Satroi. No room in the kicks. Door pods would be good idea for the Satori's, but im not up to biulding out doors.
What do you think about the sub idea?

Ive never done an install like that, but a friend of mine had his subs in his rear seat of his accord, because there was no room in the trunk. It sounds OKAY, but I'm no where near an expert to recommend something like that, i have no idea the acoustics of your car. If you have the subs and box already, along with the amp to power them alongside your door speaker/ subs in the back, then try it. Only problem I see would you would have directional midbass coming from behind you. the 45 degree angle might help your sound stage a bit compared to directly facing the back seat. And the fact that no one would be able to sit with the midbass subs in your rear seat lol. Are they going to be pushed up all the way against the doors? And do you use rearfill speakers in your van?

Someone else should chime in, they would have much better recommendations for you. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

Ive never done an install like that, but a friend of mine had his subs in his rear seat of his accord, because there was no room in the trunk. It sounds OKAY, but I'm no where near an expert to recommend something like that, i have no idea the acoustics of your car. If you have the subs and box already, along with the amp to power them alongside your door speaker/ subs in the back, then try it. Only problem I see would you would have directional midbass coming from behind you. the 45 degree angle might help your sound stage a bit compared to directly facing the back seat. And the fact that no one would be able to sit with the midbass subs in your rear seat lol. Are they going to be pushed up all the way against the doors? And do you use rearfill speakers in your van?
Someone else should chime in, they would have much better recommendations for you. Just my 2 cents.

Appreciate the input.

It's a work Honda Odyssey work van. Middle row of seats removed. The subs would be parallel with my ears for the most part.

I'm going to have to build 2 boxes to try it. I don't know how to model subs but i'm leaning to try it with the Pioneer TS-W1200PRO.

I will have rear fill at some point, after i get the front right i have a MS8 for the rear channels

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Appreciate the input.
It's a work Honda Odyssey work van. Middle row of seats removed. The subs would be parallel with my ears for the most part.

I'm going to have to build 2 boxes to try it. I don't know how to model subs but i'm leaning to try it with the Pioneer TS-W1200PRO.

I will have rear fill at some point, after i get the front right i have a MS8 for the rear channels

I tried it with some cheap shallow mount 10" subs in a high qts enclosure, their frequency range was 50hz to 300hz. Result was... It didnt work out at all. It still hits too low and does not have upper bass extension. A subwoofer will perform like a subwoofer no matter how much you try to crossover and eq it to try and make a pseudo midbass driver. Id recommend some midbass drivers from parts express that is actually made purely for midbass.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

I tried it with some cheap shallow mount 10" subs in a high qts enclosure, their frequency range was 50hz to 300hz. Result was... It didnt work out at all. It still hits too low and does not have upper bass extension. A subwoofer will perform like a subwoofer no matter how much you try to crossover and eq it to try and make a pseudo midbass driver. Id recommend some midbass drivers from parts express that is actually made purely for midbass.

Cool Thanks. Yeah, I was not to sure about the IDQ sub, or the BM MKIV sub, for this project. But I think that pro audio driver ( TS-W1200PRO) will be good with 60hz to 150hz. I only want to go to 150hz, on a steep slope, or 120hz with like a 18 slope.

I guess my concern really is more with the angle of the sub facing outwards at 45 degrees, and if that could have some kind of phase issues that i could not overcome with a DSP? Or if there would be any benifit from angling the sub toward the door. In my head I think the angle would make for a wider sense of sound stage, like if the sound would be bouncing off the door kind of thing, but i really don't know.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Cool Thanks. Yeah, I was not to sure about the IDQ sub, or the BM MKIV sub, for this project. But I think that pro audio driver ( TS-W1200PRO) will be good with 60hz to 150hz. I only want to go to 150hz, on a steep slope, or 120hz with like a 18 slope.
I guess my concern really is more with the angle of the sub facing outwards at 45 degrees, and if that could have some kind of phase issues that i could not overcome with a DSP? Or if there would be any benifit from angling the sub toward the door. In my head I think the angle would make for a wider sense of sound stage, like if the sound would be bouncing off the door kind of thing, but i really don't know.

Time alignment can only do so much. It will be detrimental to the stage along with phasing issues. Id go with a center console midbass or some extra kick panel midbass if anything. I was gonna get an ms8 but im going a different route with processors with much more manual tuning options.

 

[LongThrow]

Time alignment can only do so much. It will be detrimental to the stage along with phasing issues. Id go with a center console midbass or some extra kick panel midbass if anything. I was gonna get an ms8 but im going a different route with processors with much more manual tuning options.

I recommended he gets a dedicated midbass woofer in in the kick panels, in my first post. Maybe even dual 8s on each side, as he has his doors sound deadened already. Console would be a nice install for his van.

Cool Thanks. Yeah, I was not to sure about the IDQ sub, or the BM MKIV sub, for this project. But I think that pro audio driver ( TS-W1200PRO) will be good with 60hz to 150hz. I only want to go to 150hz, on a steep slope, or 120hz with like a 18 slope.
I guess my concern really is more with the angle of the sub facing outwards at 45 degrees, and if that could have some kind of phase issues that i could not overcome with a DSP? Or if there would be any benifit from angling the sub toward the door. In my head I think the angle would make for a wider sense of sound stage, like if the sound would be bouncing off the door kind of thing, but i really don't know.

Listen to Jeff. Neither of those subs will hit the freq range of 100+ especially 150hz that you're looking for. He's tried it with a pretty decent set up, as he described to you and as he states it didnt work too well, either because of soun stage problems, sq, or just plain output at the hz you're trying to push.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

well If you go on diyma.com, The SQ cats over there can recommend you some SQ subs or midbasses that actually reach up to 200hz smoothly and strong. You'll need a very strong high pass filter and processing if you want to do so or else you'll have massive phase issues. -30 db butterworth should do it. I know the struggle of having a strong sub stage and getting localization of the sub from not having enough midbass. However I worked with my EQ curve along with some time alignment and reducing the sub level even more and its not as bad anymore.

I'm doing a complete system overhaul with 4 inch mids in the A- pillars taking care of the midrange. Doors will be crossed low and have more power to it for pure midbass duty, and tweets on the sail panel running 3 way active. Hopefully the staging gets a lot better and wider and i can play my subs a bit louder without having the bass feel like its comming from the back.

Pretty cheap to do to if you ever want to do a 3 way active front later on

DURA 4 in. Schedule 40 PVC Slip Cap-447-040 - The Home Depot

As for the test, Mines was a cheap sub driver from parts express so it might have not been the best woofer for the test. I just went off of advertised frequency response specs and modeled it out on winisd. However real world results vs on paper might not always match up.

 

[BloodyGuts335i 10+ year member]

The best bet is to get some 8's on the doors! I think the versatility of an 8 to get loud and provide punchy midbass is better than trying to use the sub set up. U.S. I think it'll look cleaner as well! You don't need to get pods for the doors. Just get a some type of sheet metal cutting device and cut the whole a bit bigger to fit an 8".

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Virtually any sub can play up to 150hz, but the problem becomes pulling your soundstage behind you and issues being able to blend properly where they cross into the fronts. This is why folks use 8" woofers in their doors.... though it generally requires a bit of custom fabrication to make that happen.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Virtually any sub can play up to 150hz, but the problem becomes pulling your soundstage behind you and issues being able to blend properly where they cross into the fronts. This is why folks use 8" woofers in their doors.... though it generally requires a bit of custom fabrication to make that happen.

Actually some subs fizzle out hard after 60hz even in a sealed box, large or small. Playing is one thing, having it make enough sound to have impact on actual music is another. One sub i'll call out is those old pioneer ts-3002. Couldnt make any audible sound past 60hz for the life if it even with plenty of power going to it and 4 different enclosures done for it with low pass at 200hz.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

well If you go on diyma.com, The SQ cats over there can recommend you some SQ subs or midbasses that actually reach up to 200hz smoothly and strong. You'll need a very strong high pass filter and processing if you want to do so or else you'll have massive phase issues. -30 db butterworth should do it. I know the struggle of having a strong sub stage and getting localization of the sub from not having enough midbass. However I worked with my EQ curve along with some time alignment and reducing the sub level even more and its not as bad anymore.
I'm doing a complete system overhaul with 4 inch mids in the A- pillars taking care of the midrange. Doors will be crossed low and have more power to it for pure midbass duty, and tweets on the sail panel running 3 way active. Hopefully the staging gets a lot better and wider and i can play my subs a bit louder without having the bass feel like its comming from the back.

Pretty cheap to do to if you ever want to do a 3 way active front later on

DURA 4 in. Schedule 40 PVC Slip Cap-447-040 - The Home Depot

As for the test, Mines was a cheap sub driver from parts express so it might have not been the best woofer for the test. I just went off of advertised frequency response specs and modeled it out on winisd. However real world results vs on paper might not always match up.

How true about the real world response not matching up with...

It was one of the major guru's on that fourm that recommend that pioneer.

I know Nick from SI over at diyma mentioned that he had his MKIV playing somewhere around 120 but...

It just dawned on me that I had a 10" Dayton Audio Ultimax sealed center console that had no trouble at all with 120hz, I'm sure it could do 150hz with some authority. I'll go ahead with pioneer and see what happens.