Square Vs. Circle

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

...but back to square drivers. There will tend to be higher distortion as you reach the excursion limits due to the instability inherent in the design. A square driver is more suseptable to "rock" from side to side or front to back than a circular design.

As stated above, Kicker has done a good job addressing these issues and has built a very capable driver.

 

[azbass 5,000+ posts]

patent pending //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

these subs put out triangle waves //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif

 

[Diplexers 10+ year member]

From experience, if you port L7's "big" and port them "low", they sound amazing.

 

[4uha8ers 10+ year member]

I was looking into the L7's myself, when I have heard that square woofers don't sound as good as circular.
I was wondering why/if it's true?

i have owned both L7 and CVX,s and i like both woofers but the CVX sounds better to me but if you like the L7 get a good quality box and tune low

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Keep in mind, SQ trophies usually mean a great sounding system that 1) was toiled over for months by professionals, and 2) usually means the system was not required to play over 126db.

The L series, with its square shape, clearly was not designed to fill the SQ niche in the market.

Not trying to sound down on Kicker or L series, just trying to keep everything in perspective here.

 

[KickerSoItBump 10+ year member]

Well I really just am looking to get loud bass right now (spl), sq is important but not the thing for me right now. I'm 19, and everyone has said "yea your just lookin to get loud" and its true.

I dont think it was a dumb question, and i know its all a matter of opinion more than anything, but i wanted to see how well backed up some remarks on the square woofers were. The science behind it is what I really like to understand, I've only had one physics class so far and did great in it, but sound wasnt covered that well.

Ne ways, thanks alot for the input, i'll prolly end up getting cvx's just cuz i dont feel like dealing with all the shit for square woofers yet lol. Still getting my feet wet.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Keep in mind, SQ trophies usually mean a great sounding system that 1) was toiled over for months by professionals, and 2) usually means the system was not required to play over 126db.
The L series, with its square shape, clearly was not designed to fill the SQ niche in the market.

Not trying to sound down on Kicker or L series, just trying to keep everything in perspective here.

I thought the cap was 130?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well I really just am looking to get loud bass right now (spl), sq is important but not the thing for me right now. I'm 19, and everyone has said "yea your just lookin to get loud" and its true.
I dont think it was a dumb question, and i know its all a matter of opinion more than anything, but i wanted to see how well backed up some remarks on the square woofers were. The science behind it is what I really like to understand, I've only had one physics class so far and did great in it, but sound wasnt covered that well.

Ne ways, thanks alot for the input, i'll prolly end up getting cvx's just cuz i dont feel like dealing with all the shit for square woofers yet lol. Still getting my feet wet.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Cliff notes are, a square cone's corners are further from the center where the force is exerted on the cone, so more stress is applied to the cone in the corners than is in between the corners on the flat part of the cone's edge. Unever stress along the cone's edge means a natural tendency to want to disform under heavy use. Speaker manufacturers combat this by molding ribs into the cones at crucial points to stiffen them. This has a drawback however, added moving mass.

But Kicker seems to have a pretty winning square design, its lasting the test of time. I simply prefer, and this is a personal preference of course, a round cone that does not have any uneven stress concerns. If I want more cone area, I'll simply up-size to the next sized larger round cone (assuming Im not already looking at 18's). But for many people, the square shape works out well.

edit: And its not stupid to ask this question. Far too few people ask about it, and far too many people assume or take advice from the wrong source. However, using the board's search function next time will likely yield you more results, faster. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[dvrmstrng 5,000+ posts]

not to post dump but how would two 12 l7's ported tuned to 32 htz sound compared to 1 18 Q ported with the same power tuned the same?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Keep in mind, SQ trophies usually mean a great sounding system that 1) was toiled over for months by professionals, and 2) usually means the system was not required to play over 126db.

You forgot 3) the sub is a very tiny portion of the sound of a system and just about any sub could be put in a championship winning car and you would hardly notice.

 

[sanzyuryu]

I have built several systems for customers with L7's and L5's over the years. For the normal, everyday person who just wants their car to bump, these subs hold up fine and there is absolutely NO difference in the sound Q between a square sub and a round sub. The only thing I have EVER noticed as a negative to a square sub is in an SPL system. There are some points on the cone that get stressed before others. You can physically see them, and they aren't like the regular old "kicker marks" where the tinsel lead and pads discolor the cone. These are to the left and right of the 90 degree corners, where the cone is weaker due to the shape. That is why most speakers are made circular, because all of the weight and stress is distruibuted equally, so you don't get these stress points. I think Kicker has it right with the way they build the square subs, because they really hold up nicely, except under real stress. And Im not talking about your normal system or even competition system, but rather the competitor that abuses everything they come in contact with...lol.

Bottom line, a circular cone's strength is distributed equally, where a square cone has naturally weaker spots on the cone. Hope that helps.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I have built several systems for customers with L7's and L5's over the years. For the normal, everyday person who just wants their car to bump, these subs hold up fine and there is absolutely NO difference in the sound Q between a square sub and a round sub. The only thing I have EVER noticed as a negative to a square sub is in an SPL system. There are some points on the cone that get stressed before others. You can physically see them, and they aren't like the regular old "kicker marks" where the tinsel lead and pads discolor the cone. These are to the left and right of the 90 degree corners, where the cone is weaker due to the shape. That is why most speakers are made circular, because all of the weight and stress is distruibuted equally, so you don't get these stress points. I think Kicker has it right with the way they build the square subs, because they really hold up nicely, except under real stress. And Im not talking about your normal system or even competition system, but rather the competitor that abuses everything they come in contact with...lol.
Bottom line, a circular cone's strength is distributed equally, where a square cone has naturally weaker spots on the cone. Hope that helps.

Actually, these days most SPL competitors are running ported systems, which means the sub(s) is playing very near tuning, and cone motion is minimalized. Its when cone excursion is at its greatest that 'cone flex' should occur.

Solo X's seem to do quite well in the SPL lanes, I dont think Ive ever heard of a cone warping to the point of breaking... I doubt the suspension would even allow it.

I do of course agree though that the round cone is naturally stronger, and your reasoning... as I said the same thing already. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[expo5.0 10+ year member]

i have done a few systems which incorporated these woofers into sq/sql type situations (not just your typical high tuning/spl stuff), and have found they do a great job so long as you tune them low (30ish) and limit the upper end of what you ask them to do.

I have yet to hear an L7 reproduce 100 hz without sounding like another sub playing 100 hz + some kind of a saw running in the distance.

my mtx 9500 15s can dance circles around L7 12s from 60-130 hz, let alone my si bm 10s or the jbl gtos in my other personal vehicles.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

But Kicker seems to have a pretty winning square design, its lasting the test of time.

dont you mean credence //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif