Sound Quality: The Sealed/Ported misconception

A sealed box is a permanent suspension counter on a woofer, which basically strongly restricts cone movement.
Add this with:

With the highly restricted cone movement, the woofer losses the ability to fully reproduce all the low frequencies well. Example; a humans sound system (our voice) is a ported system. The port is our nose. Start to hum, then plug your nose and hum. You hear and feel the difference. Its much harder to make the sound and its not as loud.
1. The port adds little to output at all, except at tuning.

2. Ported enclosures are much more suspectible to output flaws due to driver shifts, as well as enclosure shifts themselves. Ports suffer compression (as they compress, the tuning of the enclosure climbs), introduce resonances that don't belong in the frequency response, and actually detract from output almost as much as they add. Ports restrict cone movement because of the acoustical load presented on the back of the cone, which does two things - reduces the output of the driver, and takes your idea of countering the suspension in a sealed enclosure and multiplies it, because excursion is more fiercely limited in a ported enclosure than it is in a sealed one. On average a 3dB gain can be had, but you introduce a new set of problems that a sealed enclosure will not experience.

First off I can respect the fact that some people don't like boom, wave, extended bass (what-ever else its called). Another fact is, its supposed to sound like that. I'm going of hip-hop for this. Example; Warren G's track, "This DJ". It's is a boom-bass heavy track. If you play that in a sealed box, you hear the faint struggling boom and heavy kick drum. Play it, in a vented box and the boom comes out in full force.[/qupte]

That isn't SQ.

No matter though, you can enjoy it, but that doesn't make it accurate material to even judge a system upon - let alone a subwoofers ability to accurately reproduce material.

How do you know what that track is supposed to sound like? Half the song is likely mixed with artifacts that aren't reproduced by normal instruments, and therefore can't even be considered a good source of pure material to just anything upon.

The woofer in a vented box is less restriced by air pressure and the cone can more accuratly, to vibrate the -boom- sound, that your supposed to hear as Warren G produced. I believe in opinions of ones self to be valid, thats why I dis-agree with SQ refering to sealed universaly. If anything, vented is the true SQ enclosure.
Incorrect.

As stated earlier already - the woofer in the bass reflex design is more restricted. You can find several sources of information on this happening, it's been well documented for a few dozen years.
 
So what I seem to be taking away from what you are saying is that no matter what type of music you listen to, sealed is the way to go. This is because of the accuracy and reflective true intended sound of the music. If you listen to all types of music would you sugjest a sealed enclosure?
No, I don't think that's his intent at all.

You have to understand, it's not the enclosure, and it's not the driver.

It's the COMBINATION of the two that makes or breaks things.

In a very gutteral nutshell, you want a woofer with a modest Qts - usually under .5 to start with for going after a ported design. Some look at the drivers EBP, but I find that misleading at best.

 
No, I don't think that's his intent at all.
You have to understand, it's not the enclosure, and it's not the driver.

It's the COMBINATION of the two that makes or breaks things.

In a very gutteral nutshell, you want a woofer with a modest Qts - usually under .5 to start with for going after a ported design. Some look at the drivers EBP, but I find that misleading at best.
The reason I ask is that I am looking at a XXX 12" or a Magnum D2 12". I know the wattage is different 600 for the Magnum and 1600 for the XXX, but I am trying to decide between ported and sealed. I am leaning towards sealed for the XXX and ported for the Magnum. I am just looking for the right info to help me make that decision. Either way I will have to get the box made for me or buy it. SXince I have no experience when it comes to this.

 
Either way I will have to get the box made for me or buy it. SXince I have no experience when it comes to this.
Jlaine just showed you his experience...

Anyway, a ported design does restrict cone movement. You'll notice by sticking the same driver in a ported enclosure and a sealed enclosure with the same power, that the woofer in the ported enclosure will not have as much excursion. The sealed box does not detract from cone movement, it detracts from air movement in the box. This pressure is what causes your excursion. The ported box would force a lot of the air out of the enclosure, and allow the woofer more room to move.

The quality of the sound is what you like.... personally, I live my woofers ported.

You may like them sealed.

 
Intriguing thread, but I think there's a lot of misunderstanding unfortunately.

I've been seeing how sealed enclosures is refered to as a SQ enclosure and know that it is very misleading. ...If you think about it, sealed has many limitations that would not justify it as SQ.
A sealed box is a permanent suspension counter on a woofer, which basically strongly restricts cone movement. With the highly restricted cone movement, the woofer losses the ability to fully reproduce all the low frequencies well...

....The woofer in a vented box is less restriced by air pressure and the cone can more accuratly, to vibrate the -boom- sound, that your supposed to hear as Warren G produced. I believe in opinions of ones self to be valid, thats why I dis-agree with SQ refering to sealed universaly. If anything, vented is the true SQ enclosure.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you have some misconceptions about ported and sealed boxes, and the physics behind each.

Understandable misconceptions, mind you, as there is what seems to be a "hole in the box"...

But you must understand that that "hole in the box" [if the subwoofer is operated in a frequency range that was intended to be used with that subwoofer/enclosure combination] is actually increasing the forces inside the box that the subwoofer must contend with.

The sealed box is actually the easier, lower-pressure environment for your subwoofer.

There are also some fundamental reasons that the ported box cannot be sonically superior to a sealed box.

A sealed box is a simple, single-sound-source. Sound eminates from the subwoofer itself. The entire rear wave (which is inherently 180 degrees out of phase) is simply contained and dissipated. The sound coming off the speaker is pure, and at risk of oversimplification (without considering factors like how the enclosure design itself can color the shape of the response), the sound is both frequency respose-correct, and phase-correct... within reason (more so than other enclosure types).

A ported box involves the use of a port in the enclosure, to (in effect) delay the rear wave as it exits the enclosure... in fact, so it doesn't behave just like "a hole in the box". By the time the wave exits the enclosure, it is more in-phase than it is out-of-phase, so rather than cancelling out the sound energy coming directly off the front of the subwoofer, it combines constructively with it, boosting the amplitude of the sound rather than cancelling it.

However, bear in mind that the sound is never fully in-phase.. in fact, the closest it comes is rougly 90 degrees out of phase. So to begin with, there's a blurring of the two waves, cone-sound vs. port-sound, which have a 90 degree phase difference between them.

This much is inherent.

Then, consider that the two waves are most in-phase only "at" the "tuning frequency"... as you travel away from that tuning frequency in either direction, the phase difference increases, making the situation worse from a phase perspective.

Consider also that at the tuning frequency, the majority of the sound is eminating from the port.

Because of the previous statement about phase, as you travel away from the tuning frequency in either direction, this shifts, as progressively less output comes from the port, and more output comes from the cone.

Also, because of the phase relationship, at the tuning frequency, the cone is battling the in-out air motion of the port... they are the most "in phase" that they can be... so as the cone is trying to move inwards towards the enclosure, there is also momentum from the air rushing in the port, which is also working to pressurize the interior of the enclosure. The subwoofer must battle more than the ambient air pressure that it would face in a sealed enclosure (one reason they generally need to be larger than sealed counterparts).

The end result being, if you send the subwoofer a signal, that signal may be:

1) Essentially purely delayed a full 1/4 wave (playing a signal at the resonant frequency, at which the cone isn't contributing much).

2) Essentially blurred, at the point where the cone and port are both contributing to the sound in equal parts, as the cone will eminate a tone at the correct phase point, while the inherent delay and phase difference of the port makes it output that signal more than a quarter wave later...

3) Essentially cancelling out... particularly at frequencies well below tuning, when the port and cone are out of phase, the port truly does behave as a "hole in the box", the subwoofer becomes completely unloaded, it does not see any air resistance (quite a change, compared to playing at the tuning frequency), and the output level is appropriately greatly reduced, particularly with respect to the tremendous (dangerous even) levels of excursion the cone is reaching in that environment.

First off I can respect the fact that some people don't like boom, wave, extended bass (what-ever else its called). Another fact is, its supposed to sound like that. I'm going of hip-hop for this. Example; Warren G's track, "This DJ". It's is a boom-bass heavy track. If you play that in a sealed box, you hear the faint struggling boom and heavy kick drum. Play it, in a vented box and the boom comes out in full force.
So SQ should not be used to describe enclosure types, only woofer brands themselves. [/color]
Another misunderstanding.

First off, you are making claims about enclosures without respect to their size, or their tuning.

You are also making claims about enclosures without respect to the design properties of a subwoofer...

Stronger subwoofers will tend to perform well in ported enclosures.. largely because they can contend with the forces of the port inside the enclosures... while weaker subwoofers would struggle fighting them, distorting.

However, stronger subwoofers raise the resonant frequency, and generally (by nature of motor design trade offs) have lower excursion capability. So, they generally won't play as low for both these reasons, and in fact can have a peaky response if the enclosure is not carefully constructed... particularly "in-car" response.

Sealed subwoofers tend to have less-forceful motors, with low resonant frequencies, and by design can yield long excursions, making them actually better candidates for high output in sealed environments.

Sealed enclosures actually roll off more slowly, and sooner...

When coupled with the acoustical gain of your car's interior (read up on "cabin gain" and "transfer function"), what you end up with is a truly flat, smooth, "in car response". //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

That's important to audiophiles who care about sound quality.

If you design a ported enclosure that has a flat anechoic response (as you see on the screen, in a design program like WinISD), your car's cabin gain will boost the low end to the degree of 12dB/octave beginning at some frequency fairly high up (corresponding to your vehicle's personal resonance).

You'll end up with a bottom-heavy, boom car.

That's not SQ. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

If you use a subwoofer meant for ported boxes, and you hear it in a ported box, then try it in a sealed box, it of course will sound superior in a ported box. It won't have any depth, or possibly even impact, in the sealed enclosure.

That's a design property of the driver itself... and it doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a SQ woofer or not... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

And, if you use a subwoofer that is ideal in a sealed enclosure in a ported enclosure, it will fall flat on it's face, it won't sound good, it won't be able to contend with the extra forces inside the enclosure. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Consider also:

Hoffman's Iron Law states that the following three items are mutually exclusive in a subwoofer/enclosure alignment:

1) low frequency extension

2) high efficiency

3) small enclosure size

In a sealed box, you manipulate these factors simply by changing the enclosure size.

And with it, you also change the damping properties of the enclosure, which affect the sound and impact.

In a sealed box, as you make it larger, you increase low frequency extension, damping, and efficiency (as you sacrifice off "small enclosure size".

And conversely, as you make it smaller, you decrease low frequency extension, damping, and efficiency (as you increase "small enclosure size").

A subwoofer in a small sealed enclosure is a completely different animal than a subwoofer in a large sealed enclosure.

Your generalization doesn't make clear what you are comparing to.

In a ported box, you can manipulate each of these factors individually, as you can change not only enclosure size, but tuning...

In a ported box, as you tune it higher, you gain efficiency around the tuning frequency, but you lose low frequency extension as you do.

As you tune it lower, you lose efficiency, but gain low frequency extension...

You can gain efficiency back by making the enclosure larger, but you are sacrificing off "small enclosure size" to do it.

etc.

A small ported box tuned around 30hz, compared to a large ported box tuned very low, compared to a large ported box tuned very high are very completely different beasts.

Your generallization doesn't make clear what you are comparing to.

Unfortunately, you are misunderstanding the factors involved in what you are hearing. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 
You quoted my example about warren g's track and didn't back up any point to counter mine. Why do you think sealed boxes have this so called tight bass. It's because the cone stops vibrating before it should.

I like your post, alot of thought went into it. Sad thing is, sealed is just a -super- spring against any woofer. I proved in my first post that sealed boxes never deserved the claim of SQ enlosures. I don't like -ported- boxes, I like -vented- (rear vented specificallly) boxes. Holes or vents that do not extend into the box itself (1" max). I could agree about forces and phase shifts with -ported- to an extent.

No box on this earth ever deserves to be called SQ, because no box type is perfect. I have tumults which should excel in a sealed box, that get much higher output in vented, as I sealed the box to compare. I played boom tracks with it sealed and naturally couldn't hear the wave until the box was unsealed. Use any spectrum anaylizer and play a boom track and watch the 30Hz and 60Hz and listen to the boom in a sealed and ported and you will see what I mean.

I saw it mentioned before, many people aren't use to true full 20Hz 20Khz sound. So when they hear Hip-Hop e.g. in a vented, they think the boom is some mistake. Its just the woofer vibrating the signal more fully than if it was sealed. Thats why I say I don't knock sealed, cause people may never get use to the true sound, which includes the boom. Therefore not making vented a perfect choice for all.

Home audio, Public Adress, and just about every other sector knows that vented is where its at though.

 
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rotflol.gif.b453361716769b8110ddefc85ff03cd2.gif

I especially dug the "I don't like ported, I like vented boxes..."

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I don't like bass reflex enclosures either, I prefer ported...

:hilarious

You read that entire post and didn't learn a single thing...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif

Not worth further debate... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 
**** geolemon, you made me want to pull out my library of book to do research. Well put and correctly put from what im reading //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif. Down to the dot in the I's. Oh and well put too Jlaine

 
It's because the cone stops vibrating before it should.
It stops vibrating when the signal telling it to vibrate quits.

I like your post, alot of thought went into it. Sad thing is, sealed is just a -super- spring against any woofer. I proved in my first post that sealed boxes never deserved the claim of SQ enlosures. I don't like -ported- boxes, I like -vented- (rear vented specificallly) boxes. Holes or vents that do not extend into the box itself (1" max). I could agree about forces and phase shifts with -ported- to an extent.
If you actually read his post, he describes why a vented enclosure actually restricts the cone movement MORE than a sealed enclosure. You have not proven anything other than you are out of your depth, you like untuned/mistuned/noisy vented boxes and you can agree with PHYSICS, but only to an extent!

No box on this earth ever deserves to be called SQ, because no box type is perfect. I have tumults which should excel in a sealed box, that get much higher output in vented, as I sealed the box to compare. I played boom tracks with it sealed and naturally couldn't hear the wave until the box was unsealed. Use any spectrum anaylizer and play a boom track and watch the 30Hz and 60Hz and listen to the boom in a sealed and ported and you will see what I mean.
Here is most of the problem. You are simply sealing a vented box in a free-air environment and expecting it to perform correctly. It won't, first of all. The volume for a optimal sealed and vented enclosure for the same driver are rarely the same. Second of all, output and sound quality are not the same. Compare the spectrum analyzer to a realtime analyzer to get the true story as to which is more accurate. While you're at it run some decay plots and see what you get...

I saw it mentioned before, many people aren't use to true full 20Hz 20Khz sound. So when they hear Hip-Hop e.g. in a vented, they think the boom is some mistake. Its just the woofer vibrating the signal more fully than if it was sealed. Thats why I say I don't knock sealed, cause people may never get use to the true sound, which includes the boom. Therefore not making vented a perfect choice for all.
A proper SQ system will reproduce sound faithful to the original recording. If there is a lot of bass in the recording, then the system would deliver a lot of bass, but it would not over-accentuate the bass. In a car environment, vented systems tend to over-emphasize the bottom end because a system designed for flat response in the free air or large room environment, do not keep their flat response in the car environment due to cabin gain as geolman mentioned.

Home audio, Public Adress, and just about every other sector knows that vented is where its at though.
This is irrelevant. PA is not concerned with much else than output. Home audio is working in a near free air environment and does not have as much benefit from cabin gain. Some fidelity is sacrificed for extended low frequency response.

 
You read that entire post and didn't learn a single thing...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif
You assume he read the post? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/satan.gif.9c6a335ed7aeeed3ee273e573f1fcaac.gif

Not worth further debate... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif
You got that right. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Some people just have a preconceived notion in their head.. and no amount of fact or reason will break it out.

As long as other people reading this thread understand that there are some very fundamental wrongs in this whole concept, then hey, all good. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smokin.gif.f1dc8d2acb1809e863ebd6a47eaa0d45.gif

 
This is all wrong. Ask Wilson Audio or Bower & Wilkins or JM Labs why their most expensive (all $100,000 plus), most accurate, home speakers all have SEALED subs?

Sealed = Accuracy.

Accuracy = Quality.

Therefore,

Sealed = Quality.

Therefore, PROPERLY sealed subs are the best for SQ-designed car audio systems.

 
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