Sound deadening necessary for midbass?

[LongThrow]

I have a 10 inch RFosgate R1s4 in a 1.25cf tuned to 37 hz. Putting around 100-150w on this sub using a PA px1500m. I'm able to get a pretty good low bass response around my boxes tuning to 60-80 hz. After that the mid-high bass is very faint. Hardly any response.

I'm thinking about upgrading my 30watt pioneers or maybe putting an amp on them. Would I need dynamat or similar material to get what I want? Don't need professional quality just enough to balance out my lows.

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[Umbra]

I have a 10 inch RFosgate R1s4 in a 1.25cf tuned to 37 hz. Putting around 100-150w on this sub using a PA px1500m. I'm able to get a pretty good low bass response around my boxes tuning to 60-80 hz. After that the mid-high bass is very faint. Hardly any response.
I'm thinking about upgrading my 30watt pioneers or maybe putting an amp on them. Would I need dynamat or similar material to get what I want? Don't need professional quality just enough to balance out my lows.

I can tell you I had very poor midbass response from my door speakers before treating them (part of that included CLD tiling). I thought it was just my speaker selection, but after treating them the midbass is at least 5x better.

Subs aren't really meant for midbass, but I supposed you can use them for it, if you wanted. I think the midbass frequency is too far from your tuning to for it to really work.

 

[LongThrow]

I'm looking for more output at about 100-160 hz. Rap and most metal I listen to sounds great for the budget system I have. There just isn't any punch after 80 hz on my sub. 100-200 has a very flat faint response. Doesn't make for good quality sound although I'm mainly looking for a SPL setup. Don't want to put 100+just in dampening to get a higher response on higherbass tones.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I'm looking for more output at about 100-160 hz. Rap and most metal I listen to sounds great for the budget system I have. There just isn't any punch after 80 hz on my sub. 100-200 has a very flat faint response. Doesn't make for good quality sound although I'm mainly looking for a SPL setup. Don't want to put 100+just in dampening to get a higher response on higherbass tones.

you want the midbass boom right? You'll either need a subwoofer with aluminium shorting coils or properly treat your doors along with proper power. Dont expect low end aftermarkets to put out any midbass without proper power and deadening.

Besides subwoofers playing anything higher then 100hz will sound like garbage, they are not designed to play those notes clean and loud. I used to want those notes too man, i'm a crazy metal head back then. Solution was just getting louder bass overall through better subwoofer choices and proper power, low passed at 80 hz you'll feel the kick of every double bass pedal and upper bass notes from a bass guitar.

As for speakers, i'd recommend going pro audio if you are going for an spl Setup. They are very loud and clear without needing too much power. You'll end up drowning out your subwoofer though because they are a crapton louder then regular speakers.

http://www.soundqubed.com/QP-MR65-Sold-As-Pair-Grills-Not-Included_p_103.html

Pair em with the soundqubed supertweets and you'll be happy.

 

[LongThrow]

you want the midbass boom right? You'll either need a subwoofer with aluminium shorting coils or properly treat your doors along with proper power. Dont expect low end aftermarkets to put out any midbass without proper power and deadening.

yes, at the 100hz + range. Tell me more about the aluminum shorting coils.

35-80 hz is my sub's hot spots with a resonant freq of like 40-45. Once it goes over 80hz it just flattens out and just doesn't sound right. Going from major thump to a small bass tone is killing my sq.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

yes, at the 100hz + range. Tell me more about the aluminum shorting coils.
35-80 hz is my sub's hot spots with a resonant freq of like 40-45. Once it goes over 80hz it just flattens out and just doesn't sound right. Going from major thump to a small bass tone is killing my sq.

My bad i miss typed Its aluminium shorting rings. Here is a thread all about it

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/sundown-audio/534072-shorting-rings-why-do-we-use-them.html

If you are too lazy here's the gist of it

1) More power delivery to the coil as inductance causes "rise"

2) Less distortion -- inductive distortion is odd order and unpleasant; although a fairly small part of total distortion.

3) More high-end extension as inductance is a 6dB per octave low-pass crossover.

4) These rings also act as heat-sinks; although this effect is not a large reason to use them in and of itself.

basically plays up to midbass a lot easier with less inductance.

You sure your sub's not actually just dying out after 50hz? use a tone generator to make sure because 100hz-160hz sounds a lot different then you would expect its more of a drum kick/snap not a high boomy bass guitar note, All the things i described is actually in the 50-80hz region which i suspect your sub is weak at.

 

[LongThrow]

To be EXACT I'd have to wait until later in the day (4 am here in Missouri) I have a freq generator on my phone and I'll get back to you on that asap. Flat isn't a good description, there's a huge dip from 40-50hz once its to 90-120+ it just dies out as if its below my tuning freq.

A 100hz modulated bass tone (in rap for example) sounds different than an actual instrument MAKING that frequency. If that makes sense. For example, the song lotta that by g easy. Starts out with (I guess anyways) what sounds like 40hz region, and then kicks off to a higher freq what I suspect is around 100hz. 15 seconds into the song you'll see the bass note I'm talking about. 25 seconds into the song.

Sorry if I'm not making any sense its late and my insomnia isn't being very forgiving.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

To be EXACT I'd have to wait until later in the day (4 am here in Missouri) I have a freq generator on my phone and I'll get back to you on that asap. Flat isn't a good description, there's a huge dip from 40-50hz once its to 90-120+ it just dies out as if its below my tuning freq.

A 100hz modulated bass tone (in rap for example) sounds different than an actual instrument MAKING that frequency. If that makes sense. For example, the song lotta that by g easy. Starts out with (I guess anyways) what sounds like 40hz region, and then kicks off to a higher freq what I suspect is around 100hz. 15 seconds into the song you'll see the bass note I'm talking about. 25 seconds into the song.

Sorry if I'm not making any sense its late and my insomnia isn't being very forgiving.

Yeah I get ya man, that is around 100hz according to a spectrum analyzer graph on audacity. I kinda take those notes for granted with my current setup, hits em fine even when low passed to 63hz/80hz. Cure for that is a higher end woofer that plays both lows and upper bass along with good power, some woofers were not built to play anything higher then the subsonic region. A well designed ported enclosure with a flat response graph would help too. Can work with sealed too but you'll need good woofers that can actually perform well in a sealed enclosure based on the Efficiency bandwidth product(ebp) along with giving those woofer a lot of power. A T-line will be great to hit all the frequencies and will make your sub loud on a lot less power, however design is difficult and the box takes up gigantic amounts of space.

Cheap fix right now would be to bump up your low pass filter to 100 on both head unit and amp.

 

[LongThrow]

Believe it or not the kicker comp I had (same sentivity and wattage rating) hit just as much low bass as my Rockford does now, when it was in the loaded truck box the kicker came in - AND better mid bass.

I usually have my lpf set on 80-100-125. Hpf set to 200 -6 octave. The door panel vibrations with my door speakers being EQd to boost my sub are ridiculous so there's a gap in my door speakers and sub crossovers.

My hu doesn't have a THRU or off setting for my lpf so would setting it on my amp and head unit cause any problems? I have my lpf on my amp between the lowest 35 and the highest 160. Right in the middle.

Any 6 by 8 midrange suggestions? Must be coaxial gonna be run off of head unit power ( coaxial for the low power, won't be using the tweeter) Figured I'd put them in the rear doors and just use them as midbass woofers. My head unit has a switchable sub preout and rear preout in case I was running a sub off my head unit. Use the rear speaker to send only bass.

 

[LongThrow]

And is 37 hz too high tuning for my sub? Just a 1.25 cf prefab (that is pretty decent!) Would go BIGGER than the reccomended ported/sealed specs be bad? If it said 1.5 but I had it in a 2?

I go for SPL in my setups but I still don't like to degrade my sq when I don't have to. I figured the higher the tuning I have the less lower bass notes I can play. I like to have as wide of a spectrum as I can. I guess that's where SQL comes into play.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

And is 37 hz too high tuning for my sub? Just a 1.25 cf prefab (that is pretty decent!) Would go BIGGER than the reccomended ported/sealed specs be bad? If it said 1.5 but I had it in a 2?
I go for SPL in my setups but I still don't like to degrade my sq when I don't have to. I figured the higher the tuning I have the less lower bass notes I can play. I like to have as wide of a spectrum as I can. I guess that's where SQL comes into play.

Things does not work the way you think it will man. Each box is different and each subwoofer will perform differently in the box thats why there are theile small parameters so you can design and engineer a perfect box. You have no clue what tuning up to 40hz will do to the performance of your overall bass. IT will quickly turn into a one note wonder and sound like utter garbage along with losing upper bass because you have just caused a peak in the frequency response graph.

Just because you say you like going SPL doesn't mean i'll recommend you stuff that gets loud and sounds like utter sh*t man. This site is a source to get all the knowlege and info in great underground brands that will utterly destroy kicker, rockford, pioneer, kenwoods mainstream brands in both price performance ratio and build quality.

What the hell is the use of buying coaxials if you are not going to even use the tweeter? Then buy the friggen pro audio mids I linked, they come with no tweeters, they can play full range or pure midrange/midbass, gets loud and sounds clear and can run off head unit power and when amped, they'll punch you right in the face.

Most of your equipment choices are very sub-par. Going with bottom of the barrel rockford and kicker is the same as going with boss, pyle or pyramid

There's the right way to do it man, and there's a wrong way. You are heading down a path of wasted money trying to go with the cheap route. You'll look back later and regret how much $$$ you are dumping into junk equipment instead of doing a proper setup.

The proper way is to sound proof your doors, get a 4 channel amp, and you'll get that midbass bliss from your door speakers. YES it will get that loud once you've deadened it and amp it. You have obviously never heard a proper vehicle that has done so and you are doubting it, however it works wonders, go to local competitions either SQ or SPL and you'll see almost every decent car deadened with great midbass that punches you in the chest(from the 6.5/8" mids only). Next thing is, do not buy junk subwoofers. Sorry to say your previous kicker and current rockford are extremely low end, cant expect great sound from them. Next thing is, proper enclosure, You'll spend crazy amounts of money buying different cheap subs and praying to god one of them works fine in your box, but you could have had great results from the get go with a well designed box. Give me the dimensions(LxWxH) of your box and i'll tell you how much cubic feet it really is. Most pre-made boxes lie about their specs.

sorry if that sounded harsh, you just sound like my friend who've wasted 500 dollars in total trying to put together a cheap system, switching out subs, switching out speakers, never paying attention to the install(enclosure design, acoustical door treatments, tuning and proper seals) and she has regretted every part of it once she gained more car audio wisdom.

Rant over lol.

 

[LongThrow]

Things does not work the way you think it will man. Each box is different and each subwoofer will perform differently in the box thats why there are theile small parameters so you can design and engineer a perfect box. You have no clue what tuning up to 40hz will do to the performance of your overall bass. IT will quickly turn into a one note wonder and sound like utter garbage along with losing upper bass because you have just caused a peak in the frequency response graph.
Just because you say you like going SPL doesn't mean i'll recommend you stuff that gets loud and sounds like utter sh*t man.

What the hell is the use of buying coaxials if you are not going to even use the tweeter? Then buy the friggen pro audio mids I linked, they come with no tweeters, they can play full range or pure midrange/midbass, gets loud and sounds clear.

Most of your equipment choices are pretty sub-par. Going with bottom of the barrel rockford and kicker is the same as going with boss, pyle or pyramid

There's the right way to do it man, and there's a wrong way. You are heading down a path of wasted money trying to go with the cheap route. You'll look back later and regret how much $$$ you are dumping into junk equipment instead of doing a proper setup.

The proper way is to sound proof your doors, get a 4 channel amp, and you'll get that midbass bliss from your door speakers. YES it will get that loud once you've deadened it and amp it. You have obviously never heard a proper vehicle that has done so and you are doubting it, however it works wonders, go to local competitions either SQ or SPL and you'll see almost every decent car deadened with great midbass. Next thing is, do not buy junk subwoofers. Sorry to say your previous kicker and current rockford are extremely low end, cant expect great sound from them. Next thing is, proper enclosure, You'll spend crazy amounts of money buying different cheap subs and praying to god one of them works fine in your box, but you could have had great results from the get go with a well designed box. Give me the dimensions(LxWxH) of your box and i'll tell you how much cubic feet it really is. Most pre-made boxes lie about their specs.

sorry if that sounded harsh, you just sound like my friend who've wasted 500 dollars in total trying to put together a cheap system, switching out subs, switching out speakers, never paying attention to the install(enclosure design, acoustical door treatments, tuning and proper seals) and she has regretted every part of it once she gained more car audio wisdom.

I said coaxials because they usually have less power handling and I'll be putting them on my head unit. Those pro audios you linked liked pretty nice and at 75% of my sub's power handling capabilities and a sensitivity of I recall 93? Should be loud. One problem though I can only for 6 by 8s or 5 by 7s in my rig. My hu puts a max of 20watts RMS at best maybe 15.

I KNOW what to look for and what to buy and what would be a good match. I just simply don't have the money. There's a huge variety of quality expensive equipment I could choose, and very few of cheap brands that are worth it.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Just saying its pro audio as in it'll still be louder then a majority of the coaxials you can find in the market even on head unit power. Sensitivity is high. You can always use adapters, they are cheap on partsexpress.com. When you do add an amp, you dont have to upgrade speakers again.

If you buy coaxials with lower power handling, in the future, they will be useless to you when you decide to upgrade again. You'll be paying for the coaxials and another pair of speakers along with an amp should you decide to add one. Vs getting proper speakers, then an amp later.

 

[LongThrow]

Just saying its pro audio as in it'll still be louder then a majority of the coaxials you can find in the market even on head unit power. Sensitivity is high. You can always use adapters, they are cheap on partsexpress.com. When you do add an amp, you dont have to upgrade speakers again.
If you buy coaxials with lower power handling, in the future, they will be useless to you when you decide to upgrade again. You'll be paying for the coaxials and another pair of speakers along with an amp should you decide to add one. Vs getting proper speakers, then an amp later.

Makes a lot of sense.. How are these?

Infinity 6832cf Reference Series 6" x 8" Car Speakers

Coaxials but they look like they'll do for midbass after I sound deaden and pit an amp on them. I found a basic pioneer for them at 75wx2 @2ohms. Speakers are rated at 60 @2

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Should work better then what you have currently