Sound deadener might fall off..recommend some glue to keep it up?

[nobb 10+ year member]

Hey.

Well I just applied some Blueskin to my rear doors and trunk lid about a week ago. Its staying on pretty well, but on my trunk lid, some of the edges have loosened up a bit. So I'm just a bit paranoid about the Blueskin in my doors falling off then having asphalt rubber all over my windows when they are down. I realize the Blueskin in my trunk lid probably has more chance of falling than the ones applied in my doors to fall off.

So I was thinking maybe using some sort of glue to apply around the edges, just to keep the deadener on. What type of glue do I need? The inside of my trunklid is painted metal. My doors are also painted metal, but there was this part that looked like fiberglass(inside door panel), which I also deadened.

Thanks.

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[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Did you clean the area thoroughly with rubbing alcohol or similar material? That's the main time I see adhesion problems so soon after installation. But Im not familiar with that product, so I may be off base here.

3M seems to make the best spray adhesives. Id be really concerned simply gluing the edges up better wont be a very long-term fix for the problem though.

 

[Rawr-DQ 10+ year member]

I'd recommend getting a heat gun or use a acetlyen torch...maybe even a hair dryer and heat up the parts that aren't sticking well, get it warm enough roll it back on and it should stay.

Blueskin is a tar based sound deadener right? Otherwise this probably wont help.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Heat it, stick it back on, then buy some aluminum tape and tape around all of the edges. This will hold it on AND keep it from oozing out when it gets extremely hot. I will absolutely not use a tar deadener under any circumstance in anyones car without aluminum tape around the edges.

 

[Rawr-DQ 10+ year member]

Heat it, stick it back on, then buy some aluminum tape and tape around all of the edges. This will hold it on AND keep it from oozing out when it gets extremely hot. I will absolutely not use a tar deadener under any circumstance in anyones car without aluminum tape around the edges.

I dunno about you but I just went out to my car that's been sitting in the sun all day...down here in florida, it's like 85-90 degrees out, the trunk lid is hot, and the deadener is warm, but not dripping from the seems...I touched the tar and it wasn't hot enough to stick to my fingers. So I wouldn't worry about it dripping except when you shoot it with a heat gun for too long.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I dunno about you but I just went out to my car that's been sitting in the sun all day...down here in florida, it's like 85-90 degrees out, the trunk lid is hot, and the deadener is warm, but not dripping from the seems...I touched the tar and it wasn't hot enough to stick to my fingers. So I wouldn't worry about it dripping except when you shoot it with a heat gun for too long.

You would think that it wouldn't drip but, trust me, it does. I've seen it in several cars here in NC. It may not happen immediatly or even for a year or more... but the tar deadeners will eventually ooze out. It totally ruined the rear carpet in a friend's car -- a Celica hatch, the sun beaming through the glass probably didn't help that. I have also seen it drip in trunks... in black and dark grey cars from what I have seen personally, but that may just be a coincidence.

In my own cars I won't use asphalt deadener for anything but the floor... and even then I don't use it unless I ran out of the good stuff towards the end of a project and need only 10 - 15 ft^2 more to finish. I STILL tape all of the seams to keep it from smelling and oozing out under my carpet.

Well, I also used it on the outter skin of the car in some cavities that were filled entirely in with expanding foam -- so that can't escape anywhere either //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

If Blue Skin is an asphalt product heating it up will yield temporary results at best.

Asphalt is a liquid product. Just like water. It can melt, freeze, melt freeze (unlike many butyl formulations, asphalt is not a curing polymer, and unlike water, asphalt can only thaw and freeze so many times before the volities are gone and the product is crud).

Trying to use an additional adhesive on an asphalt mat is like trying to use glue to adhere an ice cube to a wall.

The best you can do is keep the temperatures low, and use a foil backed tape with a high heat rating on the edges of the blue skin. Only problem there is once the temperature increases and the asphalt gives way, there will be absolutely zero surface contact with asphalt nad metal, so no more vibration damping.

I am not familiar with blue skin, but if it is an asphalt mat, get rid of it.

ANT

http://www.secondskinaudio.com

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I simply wont use asphalt deadener any more. I have a crap ton here I gotta figure out which friend to pawn it off on. lol

I used it alot (McMasterCarr stuff) and live in Florida for years, never had any problems. But Ive heard of people who have. Either way, its so inferior to butyl rubber matting that I just cant justify putting the asphalt down any more.

 

[nobb 10+ year member]

Yes, I cleaned all the surfaces with isopropyl before. I dont exactly have any problems right now as the stuff seems to be on pretty well, its just a little areas around the edges that are not perfectly adhered. I dont think taking off the Blueskin will be an option, since its on there pretty tight. This is the first time I've done anything like this, and alot of people said they have had no problems with asphalt based deadeners, so I figure Id give it a try.

I dont know how hot it gets in the central states like Arizona or Texas, but I live in Calgary, Canada, so I figure it probably doesnt get as hot up here. I am mostly worried about the effects of low temperature (-40C).

Also, Blueskin is not purely asphalt, its "SBS rubberized" (dont know if that makes a difference). Here is the specs for Blueskin® SA, if anyone is interested:

http://www.bakor.com/airbarriers_literature.asp

I bought it because the specs rated it at -40C to 70C, which is within range for my application.

 

[htownplaya456 10+ year member]

Which deadener isn't an asphalt deadener? Which one's to lookout for, I don't know too much about certain deadener's just put them on.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I dunno about you but I just went out to my car that's been sitting in the sun all day...down here in florida, it's like 85-90 degrees out, the trunk lid is hot, and the deadener is warm, but not dripping from the seems...I touched the tar and it wasn't hot enough to stick to my fingers. So I wouldn't worry about it dripping except when you shoot it with a heat gun for too long.

It often takes a year or more for asphalt mats to melt. The rubber compound used to stabilize the asphalt deteriorates with both age and exposure to heat at levels much lower than what it takes to melt the compound. As the stabilizers degrade, the melting temperature drops. You have to hope that all of the VOCs have evaporated before the compound's melting temp reaches temperatures it is exposed to.

Real problem is, asphalt is not an elastic material. Even if it doesn't melt or fall off, it is a pretty poor vibration damper. All it can do is add mass. If that low level of performance is acceptable to you, you would be much better off using concrete or something else without asphat's severe downsides.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Which deadener isn't an asphalt deadener? Which one's to lookout for, I don't know too much about certain deadener's just put them on.

Dynamat original is the most well known asphalt mat. There were many variations, including from eD and even McMaster Carr (industrial supply).
The 'rubberized' part of the asphalt mat is purely marketing. All asphalt mats had/have some (butyl iirc) rubber in them. That's exactly th excuse eD use for stating their mat was 'rubber based' when it was simply asphalt mat with slightly more rubber in it (trivial amount).

The new mats these days are butyl rubber based. Made from butyl rubber, not asphalt with a little rubber in them. They are superior in adhesion, heat resistance, dampening qualities and noise rejection (alum foil backed especially). Rudy there is the one who did the now famous sound deadener showdown, it explains all this. Click the link in his sig. Oh and... hi Don. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Dynamat original is the most well known asphalt mat. There were many variations, including from eD and even McMaster Carr (industrial supply).
The 'rubberized' part of the asphalt mat is purely marketing. All asphalt mats had/have some (butyl iirc) rubber in them. That's exactly th excuse eD use for stating their mat was 'rubber based' when it was simply asphalt mat with slightly more rubber in it (trivial amount).

The new mats these days are butyl rubber based. Made from butyl rubber, not asphalt with a little rubber in them. They are superior in adhesion, heat resistance, dampening qualities and noise rejection (alum foil backed especially). Rudy there is the one who did the now famous sound deadener showdown, it explains all this. Click the link in his sig. Oh and... hi Don. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif The only change I'd make is that the rubber in the asphalt products is either SBS or SBR. Some of the manufacturers tried saying it was butyl to confuse things, but that was an outright lie.

I'm working on an update to the site right now and hope to have it ready by the end of next week. Since the current version went up, ED changed from asphalt to butyl. Here's a quick, off the top of my head:

ASPHALT

Dynamat Original

FatMat

R-BLox

Peel & Seal, Grace Ice & Water Shield (and almost all construction products)

BUTYL

Dynamat Xtreme

Second Skin Damplifier (both versions)

Cascade VB-Max

RAAMmat

eDead (all three versions)

Then there is an Internet only brand called Sound Destroyer that seems to be a cross between R-Blox and eDead. They swear it is butyl, but I'm getting conflicting test results, so stay tuned on that one.

 

[nobb 10+ year member]

Someone said aluminum backed foil has superior noise rejection. Why is that? You mean the aluminum on some of the products actually serve noise reduction purposes?

 

[CaliforniabOY5 10+ year member]

get adhesive spray? anything decent should work. . . . Second Skin's spray is solid.