I agree that they both ****, however if you are going to get one of those i would say tha volvenhag, simply because my buddy bought a pair from the SWAP MART. he had it hooked up to a koiler 800watt 2 channel amp and they sounded way better than I was expecting. Unfortunately the subs did start making a rattle noise from with in the cone. Well he took them back and choose something different, i forgot what, he dont have those anymore either. volfenhag are nice subs, and I thing that the are ok for 50 a peice.