Some Idiot At Audio Express

[Skip01 5,000+ posts]

At least you're an honest moron.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

indeed:laugh: //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

Go to "The Specialist" in Tucson. They are much more professional.

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

he's gonna explode them both.

 

[synikalt 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Clipping & distortion DO NOT blow speakers.

Too much power is what kills speakers!

Alos, if under-powering speakers kills them, then everytime I turn down the volume my speakers would blow.

I was under the impression that underpowering your sub meaning...getting an amp that does 500w rms for a sub that can handle 1000w rms @ 1 ohm. for example. It doesnt neccesarily happen just by underpowering in general...but people try to pull more out there amp for their sub, max out the gain, bass boost, max out volume on their hu anything to get more out of their amp for their sub, which can cause the amp to clip. and send bad signals to the sub which can damage it.

thats what i was trying to explain to the guy

but then agian, this is what ive read from threads on THIS FORUM...im not that much of an expert on car audio..you may know more so you can explain to the guy and me as well whats wrong with getting an amp that does more than the sub can handle

 

[goodstuff 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Clipping & distortion DO NOT blow speakers.

Too much power is what kills speakers!

But doesn't too much power cause clipping and distortion? Hmm...

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

I was under the impression that underpowering your sub meaning...getting an amp that does 500w rms for a sub that can handle 1000w rms @ 1 ohm. for example. It doesnt neccesarily happen just by underpowering in general...but people try to pull more out there amp for their sub, max out the gain, bass boost, max out volume on their hu anything to get more out of their amp for their sub, which can cause the amp to clip. and send bad signals to the sub which can damage it.
thats what i was trying to explain to the guy

but then agian, this is what ive read from threads on THIS FORUM...im not that much of an expert on car audio..you may know more so you can explain to the guy and me as well whats wrong with getting an amp that does more than the sub can handle

You can send a speaker a clipped signal all day long and nothing will happen to it as long as it can handle the power.
Power is what kills speakers, more average power over time.

But doesn't too much power cause clipping and distortion? Hmm...

No. If distortion killed speakers, anytime someone listened to Jimmy Hendrix, ect... their speakers would blow.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/showthread.php?t=4332&highlight=clipping

The only thing that thermally damages speakers is power... more specifically: average power over time. 

I'll explain...

 

If you take a given amplifier, let's say 100 watts and operate it just below clipping with music material, the "Crest Factor" of the amplifier's output is equivalent to the "Crest Factor" of the program material.

 

"Crest Factor" is the difference between the average level of the signal and its peak level. For example, a pure sine wave has a "crest factor" of 3dB, meaning that it's peak level is 3dB higher than its average level. We all know that 3dB represents a power factor of 2, so another way to look at it is that the peak power of the signal is twice that of its average level. So, if we play a sine wave on our 100 watt amplifier, just below its clipping level, the average power (over time) the speaker is needing to dissipate is 50 watts.

 

A true square wave, by comparison, has a crest factor of 0db, so it has equal average and peak power. Our 100 watt amplifier, playing a square wave, unclipped, into our speaker requires that the speaker dissipates 100 watts of power (twice the heat as a sine wave).

 

Music has a significantly higher crest factor than sine waves or square waves. A highly dynamic recording (Sheffield Lab, Chesky, etc.) typically has a crest factor of 20dB or more, meaning that its average power is 100 times lower than its peak power. So, if we play our 100 watt amplifier just below clipping with the typical audiophile recording our speaker is only needing to dissipate 1 watt of average power over time.

 

Modern commercial recordings typically exhibit crest factors of around 10dB, meaning that the average power is 10 times lower than the peak power. So, our 100 watt amp just below clipping would deliver an average power over time of 10 watts that the speaker has to dissipate.

 

Okay, so what happens when we clip the amplifier (which we all do at times). When the amplifier enters into clipping, the peak power no longer increases, but here's the KEY... THE AVERAGE POWER CONTINUES TO INCREASE. We can often tolerate a fair amount of clipping... as much as 10 dB or more above clipping with a reasonably dynamic recording... a bit less with a compressed commercial recording.

 

So, if we turn the volume up 10dB higher than the clipping level with our Sheffield Lab recording, we have now reduced the crest factor of the signal reaching the speakers by 10dB... so instead of needing to dissipate 1 watt average, we are asking the speaker to dissipate 10 watts average, and we're probably ok.

 

If we turn up the volume 6dB past clipping on a compressed commercial recording (or bass music recording), we have taken the crest factor of the signal from a starting point of 10dB to only 4dB, asking the speaker to dissipate an average power of 40 watts instead of 10 watts... that's FOUR TIMES the average power, which generates four times the heat.

 

SO, in most cases, the reason clipping can damage a speaker really has nothing to do with anything other than an increase in average power over time. It's really not the shape of the wave or distortion... it's simply more power over time.

 

When someone plays Bass Mekanik clean (unclipped) on a 1000 watt amplifier the average power is 100 watts (10dB crest factor). You can also make 100 watts average with Bass Mekanik by heavily clipping a 200 watt amplifier.

 

If someone is blowing a woofer with 200 watts of power due to a lack of restraint with the volume control... they will blow it even faster with a 1000 watt amplifier because they will probably turn it up even more and now they have more power to play with... this is the recipe for aroma of voice coil.

 

When woofers are rated for power, an unclipped signal is assumed. We use test signal with a crest factor of 6dB for power testing and can run a speaker at its rated power for hours and hours on end without thermal or mechanical failure. For example, a W1v2 can dissipate 150 watts average power for eight hours or more with signal peaks of 600 watts. So, we rate the speaker for 150W continuous power. This way, when a customer needs to choose an amp for it, they will hopefully choose one that can make about 150 W clean power... Even if they clip the bejeezus out of that amplifier, it is unlikely that the speaker will fail thermally. This is a conservative method, but it needs to account for the high cabin temperatures in a car (think Arizona in the summer) which significantly impacts heat dissipation in the speaker. A top plate that starts at 150 degrees F is not as effective at removing heat as one that starts at 72 degrees F in the lab... and this affects the ramp up of heat in the coil.

 

DISCLAIMER: The frequency components of clipping can affect tweeters due to their low inductance and lack of low-pass filtering. Clipping

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

essentially raises the average power of high frequencies to a point that can damage tweeters... Woofers and midranges couldn't care less about these high frequency components because their filtering and/or inherent inductance knocks that stuff out of the picture.

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[goodstuff 10+ year member]

You can send a speaker a clipped signal all day long and nothing will happen to it as long as it can handle the power.
Power is what kills speakers, more average power over time.

No. If distortion killed speakers, anytime someone listened to Jimmy Hendrix, ect... their speakers would blow.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif

So your saying in recordings where someone uses a distortion pedal it's the same as actually turning it up too loud and making your speakers distort?

 

[Auddasea 10+ year member]

can someone just reccomend a **** amp lol..please?!

 

[ProjectPat06 10+ year member]

http://www.cardomain.com/item/POWTS6202

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

can someone just reccomend a **** amp lol..please?!

Okay -

You've got a pair of DVC 4 Ohm subs rated for 150w RMS each.

With those voice coils on a pair of subs you can either wire them to a final nominal load of 1 Ohm or 4 Ohms.

Additionally you're needing an amp that makes 300-400w at either of those loads.

Since it will be considerably easier to find that level of power @ 4 Ohms rather than 1 Ohm let's concentrate on the 4 Ohm option.

Wire the subs like so:

And the option posted by ProjectPat would likely be an acceptable choice but you can get that level of power cheaper...

Click on this page and scroll down to the 600SX refurb

Rated for 450w @ 4 Ohm mono bridged but probably does more like 400w @ 4 Ohm bridged actual output.

$85+shipping with a 1 yr warranty.

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

But doesn't too much power cause clipping and distortion? Hmm...

No, pushing an amp beyond it's limits is what causes clipping.................

 

[Auddasea 10+ year member]

If thats DVC...

Than there SVC...

The site however says DVC....

doesnt have the 4 terminals on the speaker...just two...

So I was going to run them parellel to either 4ohm or 2ohm...right?

400-500 watt amp...

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

this is one gigantic shit show of informative posts, sarcastic posts and people who dont know what they **** theyre talking about posts

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

So your saying in recordings where someone uses a distortion pedal it's the same as actually turning it up too loud and making your speakers distort?

Distortion is distortion.