Saying bye to DD.

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

FYI nothing is "defined" by its overtone. its the entire signal from the fundamental and its overtone.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

so you are telling me there is NO detail in subbass? you realize that bass guitar plays down to the 30s?

Do you know part of realism is the bass guitar being in its location on the stage? Do you know how it's location is defined? By the upper harmonics played by the mid bass.

Bass should not be felt. In a car that's kind of hard to do but that's the goal. Bass is a filler.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

There is no contesting the facts behind linear BL performance, whether the topology is underhung, XBL, or LMT/LMS. The numbers are there, this is not a magic trick or a subjective listening experience.They simply cannot be beaten for low distortion performance. When you want the absolute best articulation when three instruments pluck the same chord, those are the only drivers that will reveal those delicate textures. They also give you that "I can hear the size of that venue because of how the room is breathing". Many will not understand what that means, and if not, then you know who you are talking to with regard to experience.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Bass should not be felt.

But low frequencies are visceral by nature, why wouldn't you want the bass to be felt? Or do you mean true to life type situations with scale considered.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

But low frequencies are visceral by nature, why wouldn't you want the bass to be felt? Or do you mean true to life type situations with scale considered.

Scale. A bass drum will not shake a room.

So tell me. If it's so superior why are they not used in the top cars? Or any car I've seen. We chase greatness. It's an addiction to have the best possible reproduction.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

There is no contesting the facts behind linear BL performance, whether the topology is underhung, XBL, or LMT/LMS. The numbers are there, this is not a magic trick or a subjective listening experience.They simply cannot be beaten for low distortion performance. When you want the absolute best articulation when three instruments pluck the same chord, those are the only drivers that will reveal those delicate textures. They also give you that "I can hear the size of that venue because of how the room is breathing". Many will not understand what that means, and if not, then you know who you are talking to with regard to experience.

On the ultimate demo cd there is a test track for room side. It's a huge auditorium with the mic placed high in the stands.

The stage shows the size. The size of the images and location. The sound like they are deep and small. With a large full stage

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

There is no contesting the facts behind linear BL performance, whether the topology is underhung, XBL, or LMT/LMS. The numbers are there, this is not a magic trick or a subjective listening experience.They simply cannot be beaten for low distortion performance. When you want the absolute best articulation when three instruments pluck the same chord, those are the only drivers that will reveal those delicate textures. They also give you that "I can hear the size of that venue because of how the room is breathing". Many will not understand what that means, and if not, then you know who you are talking to with regard to experience.

I'd love to have a discussion of topologly and high output designs. I personally use a very long gap long coil for several reasons. Just to get an idea of where people stand on things.

I liked xbl but often had power compression issues and coils opening. I messed with two different designs. While the Brahma and XXX both sound amazing they had Power compression issues. As bl and input current capibilities are you ACTUALLY motor strength indicators having the flatter bl cure but laying input capibilities to get to those levels of excursion ultimately cause more non linear motor strength than a well designed over or underhung driver in some cases..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Scale. A bass drum will not shake a room. So tell me. If it's so superior why are they not used in the top cars? Or any car I've seen. We chase greatness. It's an addiction to have the best possible reproduction.

Your system cannot accurately reproduce a helicopter land or a huge explosion in the distance if that is the case..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Do you know part of realism is the bass guitar being in its location on the stage? Do you know how it's location is defined? By the upper harmonics played by the mid bass. Bass should not be felt. In a car that's kind of hard to do but that's the goal. Bass is a filler.

Im use that filler on my next fiberglass project..

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Scale. A bass drum will not shake a room. So tell me. If it's so superior why are they not used in the top cars? Or any car I've seen. We chase greatness. It's an addiction to have the best possible reproduction.

Scale, gotchya.
No, I hear you. It's definitely important not to get caught up in hype but not at the expense of cheating yourself out of better performance. If two drivers can only mechanically move 1.5" total but one is underhung (or other) and completely linear for that 1.5" versus one being linear for only a portion of that 1.5", you will always prefer the sound of the underhung when it's digging low or being asked to remain composed under high output demands. Even more crucial when requiring both of those.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

I'd love to have a discussion of topologly and high output designs. I personally use a very long gap long coil for several reasons. Just to get an idea of where people stand on things.I liked xbl but often had power compression issues and coils opening. I messed with two different designs. While the Brahma and XXX both sound amazing they had Power compression issues. As bl and input current capibilities are you ACTUALLY motor strength indicators having the flatter bl cure but laying input capibilities to get to those levels of excursion ultimately cause more non linear motor strength than a well designed over or underhung driver in some cases..

And this is the trade off with many a linear BL driver. More often than not, you will most certainly be sacrificing peak output capabilities to gain the ultimate in linear performance. This is nothing new. That is why they created the 5400 Ultra. It's the only thing that comes close to a compromise in that relationship. Coming in at a very close second place, though, is an underhung driver. They retain some of the sensitivity needed to still come out okay in the end, while exhibiting exemplary linearity. Any true DD fan should be giving a roper nod to underhung drivers since it's how that company got it's start.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

On the ultimate demo cd there is a test track for room side. It's a huge auditorium with the mic placed high in the stands. The stage shows the size. The size of the images and location. The sound like they are deep and small. With a large full stage

Breathing, though, describes getting a sense of what size the hall is by what is taking place in the 15Hz and below region. Not the music but how that space is alive when there is no music, or as the backdrop to that music.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Y'all rely way to much on equipment.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Breathing, though, describes getting a sense of what size the hall is by what is taking place in the 15Hz and below region. Not the music but how that space is alive when there is no music, or as the backdrop to that music.

If you can hear 15hz man I'm jealous. But yes a background noise does give a sense of size. So does space around each instrument.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

And this is the trade off with many a linear BL driver. More often than not, you will most certainly be sacrificing peak output capabilities to gain the ultimate in linear performance. This is nothing new. That is why they created the 5400 Ultra. It's the only thing that comes close to a comprise in that relationship. Coming in at a very close second place, though, is an underhung driver. They retain some of the sensitivity needed to still come out okay in the end, while exhibiting exemplary linearity. Any true DD fan should be giving a roper nod to underhung drivers since it's how that company got it's start.

i really want you to hear my driver. i really think you would love it when you consider its capable of taking 2500 up to 3000 watts unclipped. i've heard the sound splinter rlp and countless TC sounds drivers including the eclipse versions. i **** you not this driver is aggressive yet subtle for example it has the SNAP on the drum while playing the guitar effortlessly. and unless your cranking up to hearing damage levels where it does whoompp whoomp you won't hear any characteristics of the driver its just transparant. 22mm 100% in the gap overhung design with a 40mm gap so by most standards that's 30mm xmax but even @ 22mm your looking at more output than most people care for..