Ron Paul

[HitManSE 10+ year member]

Both what? What the hell does the Fed reserve have to do with economic bubbles and what does printing money have to do with the exchange rate?

You make it sound as if you're the one in charge of the fed reserve and are 100% aware of everything thats going on. If its an economic bubble so be it, but its one hell of a bubble.

Second the one of the main functions of the federal reserve is to manage the supply of money

Agreed.

Third the government BORROWS money to pay for new expenses... it doesn't simply print money and put it into circulation....

Borrowing= Loan. Loans arnt free, how do you suggest they are paying for this borrowing? It doesnt take a genious to figure out paying for one credit bill with the other is going to dig one hell of a huge hole.

First off paper money isn't part of the money supply till it actually enters circulation (ie, the cash in a bank vault ISN'T money)...

Splitting hairs here... but dont forget, the entire world is included in this circulation. Other countries that the US is borrowing $ from are getting paid interest somehow.

Ron Paul doesn't know SH1T about economics and the cost of him muddling with our economy will have MUCH higher economic impact than $20 billion or so the government will spend on the entire war on drugs this year... $20 billion is .008% of federal government spending...

I'm cool with modifying birthrite and I welcome legal immigration....

Refs:

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

Do you not count the federal & state tax? we're paying either way, plus its still august. That # will rise to over $43+billion by the end of december. Even if you're looking at it from the standpoint that its not much compared to the overall spending, its still A LOT of ****in $$$$$ and could be spent in a much better way.

Sure it's a waste of money but it's a drop in the bucket and it's a silly reason to elect and idiot to office... sure he has some great components to him but he could really cause some problems with his economic ideas...

...and Bush has done a wonderful job all this time? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Its still too early to tell, so we'll see what happens. I still think hes the least retarded out of the the majority of the group. If you really feel so strongly against his opinion of the $ situation, challenge it on their sites.

Whats that old saying... the raindrop doesnt feel like its responsible for the flood...

edit: forget to mention, US just signed a deal with Israel & other Arab nations to GIVE them about $50 billion worth of military aid through the next ten years because they're afraid of Iran... I swear, I should just lay off reading about this shit. It just makes my head hurt.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

You make it sound as if you're the one in charge of the fed reserve and are 100% aware of everything thats going on. If its an economic bubble so be it, but its one hell of a bubble.

But really, HOW are they associated in any way with the bubble.... Just give me some economic way they are associated with any economic bubble... not just a "how do you know they aren't"... I obviously don't know everything they do but I'm not seeing how they could go creating bubbles....

Borrowing= Loan. Loans arnt free, how do you suggest they are paying for this borrowing? It doesnt take a genious to figure out paying for one credit bill with the other is going to dig one hell of a huge hole.

They pay the interest out of the general budget (it's an ENORMOUS amount) and they principal they just roll over into new bonds.... we ARE NOT just printing money to pay it...

Splitting hairs here... but dont forget, the entire world is included in this circulation. Other countries that the US is borrowing $ from are getting paid interest somehow.

Actually for the purposes of how the Fed calcs circulation that money isn't counted, only the money within our borders.... mostly because it would be impossible to count... but yes, we pay our interest in Dollars, then that country either uses that money to invest/purchase something from America or goes to the foreign exchange and sells the dollars... this is likely a small part of the reason our currency has dropped since we've seen a spike in borrowing coupled with a weakened economy for several years (2001-2003)

Do you not count the federal & state tax? we're paying either way, plus its still august. That # will rise to over $43+billion by the end of december. Even if you're looking at it from the standpoint that its not much compared to the overall spending, its still A LOT of ****in $$$$$ and could be spent in a much better way.

Well if you include the states it could be that large.... but then you have to include the state budgets and my guess it be it would be even less significant... yes, it's alot of money, but his economic idea's could be more costly and dangerous than a few drops from the faucet... if we want to save money we need to be looking at MUCH larger problems...

I don't disagree on de-criminalizing MJ but it's just not a priority in my mind....

...and Bush has done a wonderful job all this time? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Its still too early to tell, so we'll see what happens. I still think hes the least retarded out of the the majority of the group. If you really feel so strongly against his opinion of the $ situation, challenge it on their sites.

Whats that old saying... the raindrop doesnt feel like its responsible for the flood...

edit: forget to mention, US just signed a deal with Israel & other Arab nations to GIVE them about $50 billion worth of military aid through the next ten years because they're afraid of Iran... I swear, I should just lay off reading about this shit. It just makes my head hurt.

ohh I know... bush and the 2000-2006 republican congress deserves to be strangled for their spending... I'm seriously pissed that they have spent so much... I mean an entire new entitlement program focusing on the elderly, just before the baby boomers hit retirement age... that's ridiculous! What happened to fiscal conservatism????

And so what about $10bil a year in military aid to arab states... it's part of the containment strategy and it's a hell of alot cheaper than invading....

 

[HitManSE 10+ year member]

But really, HOW are they associated in any way with the bubble.... Just give me some economic way they are associated with any economic bubble... not just a "how do you know they aren't"... I obviously don't know everything they do but I'm not seeing how they could go creating bubbles....

Seems we've both played this game many times before //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif this part isnt going anywhere.

They pay the interest out of the general budget (it's an ENORMOUS amount) and they principal they just roll over into new bonds.... we ARE NOT just printing money to pay it...

General budget or not, they are digging one hell of a gigantic hole.

Actually for the purposes of how the Fed calcs circulation that money isn't counted, only the money within our borders.... mostly because it would be impossible to count... but yes, we pay our interest in Dollars, then that country either uses that money to invest/purchase something from America or goes to the foreign exchange and sells the dollars... this is likely a small part of the reason our currency has dropped since we've seen a spike in borrowing coupled with a weakened economy for several years (2001-2003)

If thats true, their way of calculating is about as retarded as they are. IMO if $ in in circulation, it doesnt matter where it is, its in circulation.

Well if you include the states it could be that large.... but then you have to include the state budgets and my guess it be it would be even less significant... yes, it's alot of money, but his economic idea's could be more costly and dangerous than a few drops from the faucet... if we want to save money we need to be looking at MUCH larger problems...

Go on...

I don't disagree on de-criminalizing MJ but it's just not a priority in my mind....

We came to that conclusion several months ago in a different thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif but no a priority it most likely isnt, its still a loose end that should be tied,

ohh I know... bush and the 2000-2006 republican congress deserves to be strangled for their spending... I'm seriously pissed that they have spent so much... I mean an entire new entitlement program focusing on the elderly, just before the baby boomers hit retirement age... that's ridiculous! What happened to fiscal conservatism????

I really dont understand how they could let such morons pull strings, I hope we dont see an administration of this level of stupidity again.

And so what about $10bil a year in military aid to arab states... it's part of the containment strategy and it's a hell of alot cheaper than invading....

Yeah, but the problem now is they hate US more then ever & I cant really blame them. Not to mention the Iran issue, they're probably already running "off the record" campaigns against them. Maybe Bush is thinking, "well, I ****ed up...might as well really **** it up" I must admit thought, I love watching the man speak. With his worsening case of foot in mouth disease its usually warrants a good laugh.

Like so..: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b6_1187696918

 

[phantom240 5,000+ posts]

ost:

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Seems we've both played this game many times before //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif this part isnt going anywhere.

Well I feel I'm on firm footing here. I have taken the classes, received A's and understand the material. It's complicated but I'd hate to see a president that doesn't understand it start breaking things assuming he has a sympathetic congress. I doubt he would though as this type of economic thinking is generally limited to libertarians and to some extent the staunch union labor types... together there might be 15% at best of congress.... This is part of the reason I like Romney, he is an accomplished business leader and seems to understand the economy. I do need to do some more serious research on his policy before I support him fully though.

General budget or not, they are digging one hell of a gigantic hole.

True, and we could make a serious tax cut if we didn't have this debt. However it does have some positives. First off about 2/3's of it is privately held, and probably 2/3's of that is held within the USA. I could look it up but I don't have time this second. In any case that debt is held by both individuals, states and retirement funds. Our investment system is corner stoned by the USA treasury bond and that is beneficial to most citizens in the US. Also those who don't happen to have enough money to save for retirement also don't get taxed, at least with Federal income tax.... For this reason we shouldn't be eliminating the debt altogether. My solution would be to require the congress to keep the federal deficit to 0 for 10-20 years. Inflation would do the rest of the work and when 2027 rolled around the debt would effectively be much smaller.

The final 1/3 or so of the federal debt is actually owned by the federal government itself. It's completely retarded but some time in the 60's or 70's, I don't remember when, congress allowed the social security trust to buy federal bonds... this is essentially borrowing from yourself and is possibly one of the stupidest thing our government has done with social security money. It's also part of the reason that social security is in such dire trouble... This needs to be stopped and we need individual accounts.

If thats true, their way of calculating is about as retarded as they are. IMO if $ in in circulation, it doesnt matter where it is, its in circulation.

The reason we have a hard time calculating money floating abroad is that many countries around the world have "dollarized". Basically they run their economies on US dollars. Because of this we really can't calculate how much is abroad, and those countries spending dollars within the country are not affecting our economy.

Go on...

We need to deal with social security, medicare, and military spending before we start worrying about $50 billion...

We came to that conclusion several months ago in a different thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif but no a priority it most likely isnt, its still a loose end that should be tied,

Yah, I agree

I really dont understand how they could let such morons pull strings, I hope we dont see an administration of this level of stupidity again.

I agree, but it's the entire government combined... usually the best and brightest are too smart to get involved with running a campaign.. they are busy making a difference or making money or both!

[quote[

Yeah, but the problem now is they hate US more then ever & I cant really blame them. Not to mention the Iran issue, they're probably already running "off the record" campaigns against them. Maybe Bush is thinking, "well, I ****ed up...might as well really **** it up" I must admit thought, I love watching the man speak. With his worsening case of foot in mouth disease its usually warrants a good laugh.

Like so..: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0b6_1187696918

Yah he IS a terrible public speaker... but I don't think he's terribly stupid or evil... and I guarantee we are fighting them via black ops, as they are to us in Iraq...

 

[HitManSE 10+ year member]

Well I feel I'm on firm footing here. I have taken the classes, received A's and understand the material. It's complicated but I'd hate to see a president that doesn't understand it start breaking things assuming he has a sympathetic congress. I doubt he would though as this type of economic thinking is generally limited to libertarians and to some extent the staunch union labor types... together there might be 15% at best of congress.... This is part of the reason I like Romney, he is an accomplished business leader and seems to understand the economy. I do need to do some more serious research on his policy before I support him fully though.

Thats the thing, assuming that. I dont think even with him saying that, they'd let such a thing go too far. As you said, maybe 15% of congress has a similar thoughts, but convincing the other 85% is slim. I understand when I dont have firm footing on a subject though and your understanding of it is obviously more then mine on this matter. So I know where to stop on an issue.

True, and we could make a serious tax cut if we didn't have this debt. However it does have some positives. First off about 2/3's of it is privately held, and probably 2/3's of that is held within the USA. I could look it up but I don't have time this second. In any case that debt is held by both individuals, states and retirement funds. Our investment system is corner stoned by the USA treasury bond and that is beneficial to most citizens in the US. Also those who don't happen to have enough money to save for retirement also don't get taxed, at least with Federal income tax.... For this reason we shouldn't be eliminating the debt altogether. My solution would be to require the congress to keep the federal deficit to 0 for 10-20 years. Inflation would do the rest of the work and when 2027 rolled around the debt would effectively be much smaller.

Makes sense.

The final 1/3 or so of the federal debt is actually owned by the federal government itself. It's completely retarded but some time in the 60's or 70's, I don't remember when, congress allowed the social security trust to buy federal bonds... this is essentially borrowing from yourself and is possibly one of the stupidest thing our government has done with social security money. It's also part of the reason that social security is in such dire trouble... This needs to be stopped and we need individual accounts.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hilarious.gif.02a037aad04aa96f19982b298a3d70a8.gif I just thought of doing that on a "ground" level and charge myself interest to use my own money & realized just how retarded that it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

The reason we have a hard time calculating money floating abroad is that many countries around the world have "dollarized". Basically they run their economies on US dollars. Because of this we really can't calculate how much is abroad, and those countries spending dollars within the country are not affecting our economy.

Perhaps so, I understand what you're staying but still see it as retarded.

We need to deal with social security, medicare, and military spending before we start worrying about $50 billion...

Im thinking the military spending is one of the more gigantic ones atm. I know this is a somewhat difficult question to answer, but any idea how much is flying out the window between those three a year? Guesstimated of course.

I agree, but it's the entire government combined... usually the best and brightest are too smart to get involved with running a campaign.. they are busy making a difference or making money or both!

In that case, the best and brightest are just as stupid as those running the country because we all live here & if things keep going in this direction, perhaps not in our lifetime (but who knows really) its going to lead to a collapse. Its like giving an idiot control of a ship and working in the back to make 5x the $$, but that idiot is going to sink the ship. So regardless of how much $ they're making, whats the point if they go down with the ship? Im sure you understand what I mean.

Yah he IS a terrible public speaker... but I don't think he's terribly stupid or evil... and I guarantee we are fighting them via black ops, as they are to us in Iraq...

He gets it from his father //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gifhttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=148f994d4e

The W is far worst though, no not terribly stupid. Maybe just regular stupid.

Last but not least, I think they're just trying to pick a fight at this point. Im sure Iran was fighting US, perhaps indirectly but still. Looks like we have another 400+ days of bs to worry about, I just hope it doesnt get too far out of hand.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Im thinking the military spending is one of the more gigantic ones atm. I know this is a somewhat difficult question to answer, but any idea how much is flying out the window between those three a year? Guesstimated of course.

Actually military is only about 30% of the budget... 20-25% interest on the debt and 50% social programs, not including social security....

Social spending is the biggest piece... however it all needs to be cut... maybe even pay off a little of the debt but definitely stop growing it....

 

[HitManSE 10+ year member]

Actually military is only about 30% of the budget... 20-25% interest on the debt and 50% social programs, not including social security....
Social spending is the biggest piece... however it all needs to be cut... maybe even pay off a little of the debt but definitely stop growing it....

I see. I knew it was large, but ****. 50+% is ridiculous.

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried this?

http://www.quiz2d.com/quiz/quiz.php?from=homepag

edit: //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif simplest political quiz you'll ever take //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif so dont take it too serious.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

I see. I knew it was large, but ****. 50+% is ridiculous.
Out of curiosity, has anyone tried this?

http://www.quiz2d.com/quiz/quiz.php?from=homepag

edit: //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif simplest political quiz you'll ever take //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif so dont take it too serious.

It was accurate for me... Economic conservative...

You recognize the inefficiency of having the government run the economy. You also seem to think that the government can do some good in improving people's personal habits in some areas. You fit in the Reagan-Goldwater wing of the Republican party. So, you probably approve of half or so of the Republicans in office, while at other times you might prefer the Constitution Party candidate, or even the Libertarian candidate.

Approximately 4% of the takers of this quiz scored in this area, 8% for all conservatives outside the centrist circle.

 

[bumpweLL.nYc 10+ year member]

Exchange rates and inflation are not the same thing. Both rely on supply and demand though. There has been less demand for US dollars, for various reasons, such as the less attractive investing environment since 2001 with the stock market correction and the very low interest rates... an education can be had on the subject here:
Besides the weak dollar is good for business which means it's good for jobs.... of course that can lead to waves of illegal immigration but whatever.... American's are not having enough kids to replace themselves not to mention aborting quite a few on top of that....

I thought exchange rates and inflation were somewhat related. Consider our ridiculous import/export ratio?

If Americans are not having enough kids then we shouldnt have continuous outsourcing and more GDP.

 

[IgnoreMe 5,000+ posts]

test told me i was a

Left - Leaning Freedom Lover...

and this is one of the links i got lol

"The Republican Party doesn't generally support freedom lovers such as yourself, but Ron Paul is an exception. If you want government cut as substantially as your score indicates, then the Ron Paul Revolution is a rare opportunity for you to get what you want."

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

I thought exchange rates and inflation were somewhat related. Consider our ridiculous import/export ratio?If Americans are not having enough kids then we shouldnt have continuous outsourcing and more GDP.

A) Yes they are related

B) Those news stories about import/export gaps always ignore the fact the we "export" investments... in the end all the dollars we send overseas in the for of purchases of foreign goods eventually come back in the form of foreign investment. Of course with the dollar weakening we are more likely to start exporting....

C) Our population is stable but we are in trouble because of the boomers getting ready to retire... but outsourcing isn't as scary as it seems. Notice our massive wave of outsourcing yet there are so many jobs that we are actually indirectly IMPORTING labor to fill our jobs...

 

[bumpweLL.nYc 10+ year member]

meh. all i know is that primarily our money supply was backed by gold/silver. not anymore, just a bunch of mumbo jumbo with little basis.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

meh. all i know is that primarily our money supply was backed by gold/silver. not anymore, just a bunch of mumbo jumbo with little basis.

Our money gets it's value from it's rarity. The higher the demand for the dollar, which is really a demand for our products and investments, the higher the value.

Just because you don't understand how the money derives it's value or why unbacked currency is superior to one backed by precious metals doesn't make unbacked currency scary, worthless, or inferior.....