Ring terminals

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

Copper lugs are my favorite. I hate the steel ring terminals.

 

[Torgus 10+ year member]

99% of the people on here don't solder correctly, use the RIGHT solder, or use the right contacts. and for 00 gauge wire it's easier, cheaper, faster, and better to crimp.
also seeing as i used to worked for a wire manufacturing plant and have done 1k+ pull tests i know that a good crimp is stronger than a solder joint. i will add that the pellet idea is nice and all but i can't see any good reason to use them, as it's slower, more expensive, etc...

can you give me one GOOD reason to solder the contact on vs crimping?

answer me or qft plz. thx.

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

answer me or qft plz. thx.

Yeah nice edit after posting.

One quick reason, surface area of contact between wire and connector. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[Torgus 10+ year member]

Yeah nice edit after posting.
One quick reason, surface area of contact between wire and connector. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

reason = fail

if you were AT ALL concerned about the wire you were using was too small you would go down to the next gauge before soldering to increase surface area. also a good crimp has basically as much contact as a solder filled contact. you're talking about 1-2% more surface area at most. it's so small it's not even worth mentioning and as i said if 2% really matters you should be using a lower gauge wire anyways.

and yes i did edit it because i wanted to clarify how stupid soldering the contact on is 99% of the time.

and again 99% of the people on here don't know how to correctly solder, which solder to use, and what contacts to buy.

can you give me one GOOD reason to solder the contact on vs crimping?

 

[dman4486 5,000+ posts]

not to reinsert my nose, but I don't put ring terminals on 1/0 in order to pull my auto around:fyi:

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

reason = fail
if you were AT ALL concerned about the wire you were using was too small you would go down to the next gauge before soldering to increase surface area. also a good crimp has basically as much contact as a solder filled contact. you're talking about 1-2% more surface area at most. it's so small it's not even worth mentioning and as i said if 2% really matters you should be using a lower gauge wire anyways.

and yes i did edit it because i wanted to clarify how stupid soldering the contact on is 99% of the time.

and again 99% of the people on here don't know how to correctly solder, which solder to use, and what contacts to buy.

can you give me one GOOD reason to solder the contact on vs crimping?

Why would I use bigger wire just so I could be lazy and not solder the connection? Yeah that makes sense. You can dismiss the difference in contact area all you want, but it is still a fact. Wasting money buying bigger wire vs. correctly using the correct wire is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Also, any mechanical method is bound to fail. Set screws can back out. Unless you have a real crimping tool, simple crimps do not make enough contact.

 

[Torgus 10+ year member]

Why would I use bigger wire just so I could be lazy and not solder the connection? Yeah that makes sense. You can dismiss the difference in contact area all you want, but it is still a fact. Wasting money buying bigger wire vs. correctly using the correct wire is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Also, any mechanical method is bound to fail. Set screws can back out. Unless you have a real crimping tool, simple crimps do not make enough contact.

to bad you're wrong huh? let me explain(AGAIN) how every argument you just tried to make is wrong.

1) "solder makes a better connection blah blah" listen a properly crimped wire has as much contact area. either way the difference is 1-2% which is NOTHING. Solder can't withstand the stress vs a properly crimped connector. it's quicker, cheaper, easier, and more reliable then a soldered contact. and again 99% of the people on here can't solder, don't know which solder to use, and it's more time consuming and expensive.

2) set screws are VERY easy to make them stay in permanently...but why even bring them up? we're not talking about them. oh and it's called locktite and every person in the world has it in their garage/shop

3) "Also, any mechanical method is bound to fail." uhh no.

4) "Wasting money buying bigger wire vs. correctly using the correct wire is the dumbest thing I have ever heard." that make no sense just letting you know. What i think you are trying to get at is when i mentioned the 1-2% above. IF the 1-2% more contact area is honestly needed(which it isn't 99% of the time) you would go down the a lower gauge before trying to run a system with a tolerance margin of 2%. that's just ridiculous.

5) "Why would I use bigger wire just so I could be lazy and not solder the connection?" there is nothing lazy about using a crimper vs. soldering

LOOK, A properly crimped connection will NOT be flexible in the area of electrical contact. The wire within the crimp should form a "gas tight" seal between the strands and the connector. Solder will not flow into this area so it will not enhance the connection mechanically or electrically. Thus why i said 1-2% at most. The real problem with solder is that is will bond the wire strands outside the crimp and lead to premature mechanical failure unless it is supported. Capillary action will draw solder quite a distance up the stranding of the wire and turn it into solid wire, which is a no-no in any environment, especially a car. Yes you can "support" it, but what does that mean - the support would have to consist of something that would prevent the stranded part of the wire from flexing at the point where it becomes "solid" due to entrained solder. which means heavy rubber of some sort as heart shrink sure isn't a stress reliever.

Since it will not enhance the connection I see no reason to solder as it only can make the wire more prone to failure.

do you understand now?

 

[Torgus 10+ year member]

ABYC standards:

(E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit”.

"Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3.” 11.16.3.8."

The reason why crimping is by far the superior method of making a good electrical connection is that a properly compressed connection (that means, the right tool, for the right size connector and the right pressure applied to the crimp) will make the wires & connector pretty much become one. Some people refer to this as a "cold weld"

This is what a proper crimp looks like if you cut it in half

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/GL.jpg

Note that there are no voids in the wire grip area for either terminal. If I had a better polishing tool, you would be able to see individual strands captured in the terminal wire grip barrel. The 500 microinch or so thickness of tin plating on each strand would be visible as squashed ovals traced in the copper surface. As you can see, the wires & connector become one. It eliminates all voids between wires, thus keeping any air out. This prevents corrosion, which is the #1 problem in electrical connections. Corrosion increases the resistance of the connection, which obviously is BAD.

Check out this article "This is NOT a crimper"...good information

http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page7.html

This one also has a lot of good information.

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles...rimptools.html

While soldering does "seal" most of the connection area, mechanically, it is a fairly weak connection, especially with all the vibrations of a car, which add to crimping being better. Another real problem with soldering and why the ABYC code recommends crimping over it is that in the case of a circuit or wire with high electrical loads, the solder can often heat up enough to soften... combine that with wires that are vibrating... you can get a loose hot live wire inside a car... that's bad. A crimped connection, done properly, isn't ever going to come apart.

i'm surprised your not advocating Lucas Bullet style connectors.

QED

 

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

Make sure you have a good connection before you solder. I don't like to rely on solder by itself.

 

[Ralphy56 10+ year member]

Just be a doggy like me...strip the wire till you expose the copper, then hammer that mofo..with the ring terminal on obviously..

 

[Torgus 10+ year member]

i'v seen many hammered contacts come right off. i recommend a vice if the correct crimpers are not availible. you can really compress the contact well and see exactly what you are doing. it's a more uniform compression if nothing else. not to say you can't do it with a hammer it's just very crude and unreliable compared to a vice...and i just watched my friend do it with a hammer 3 weeks ago and then i pulled it right off with barely any pressure.

just saying.

 

[dman4486 5,000+ posts]

i'v seen many hammered contacts come right off. i recommend a vice if the correct crimpers are not availible. you can really compress the contact well and see exactly what you are doing. it's a more uniform compression if nothing else. not to say you can't do it with a hammer it's just very crude and unreliable compared to a vice...and i just watched my friend do it with a hammer 3 weeks ago and then i pulled it right off with barely any pressure.
just saying.

your friend is an idiot:fyi:

Why do people give the "my friend" or "this guy I knew" bs. examples

 

[Redlineaudio 10+ year member]

We hammer them and then solder none have come apart so far.

 

[Torgus 10+ year member]

your friend is an idiot:fyi:
Why do people give the "my friend" or "this guy I knew" bs. examples

cuz he is my friend...? i watched him do it. and then i just walked over pulled it out and told him to use the vice and stop ****ing around as i didn't bring my crimpers with me. i thought he just was installing amps not running wire. Have i seen hammered contacts work? yes i, i even did some myself when i was 16 and didn't know any better. If you want a good contact use a crimper, no crimper use a vice, no vice don't do it.

any shop that doesn't use a crimper is a joke. and there is no reason to use solder as i proved above. a crimper is easier and cheaper as well and MUCH more reliable.The contacts were made with the idea you would be using the correct crimper/die...like all contacts are made.

there is 0 advantage to soldering a crimped connector, if anything it promotes failure, there is 0 advantage to soldering, as a crimped connector is better electrically and mechanically, oh and easier and quicker to do to boot.

it's a $50 crimper. it's not like it's expensive....

What type of solder do you use??? please i'd love to know.

edit: For anyone who doesn't want to believe all the info i posted above chew on this: look at how high end manufacturers make their connections, Bentley, Ferrari, Mercedez, etc. all crimped. period. no exceptions. go ask any ME/EE what is better. I come from a background of Wire Manufacturing for one of the largest at the time, companies in that field. Everything was crimped. Before anyone says soldering is fine try and back it up with some facts which dispute what i posted above. otherwise QFT. I don't mean to be a jerk but this is basic 101 shit. I'm no car audio guru but i know how to make a simple connection the RIGHT way.