Repubs stab Obama in the back after he plays nice

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

The US govt is the single largest employer in the country. Between that, and all the people on welfare, its hard to get people to vote for real change. They arent going to vote themselves out of a cushy job or their hands out of our pockets.

True...sad...but true.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

privatized healthcare works, IF all parties involved in providing it (doctors, insurers, hospital administrators, etc) are moral people. When you work in an industry where other people's lives can be eliminated by your decisions however, some regulatory body needs to not only be watching, but regulating when necessary.

I work in healthcare, "death panels" are real TODAY. A board of trustees will meet to discuss whether it is worth it to perform an operation on a person that may potentially save their life today. Insurance companies TODAY habitually deny care or set unreasonable premiums and copays so the people that truly need insurance cannot afford it (so they go to the emergency room and we all pay). Doctors TODAY that have high insurance premiums to pay pack their schedules with patients and give sub par care (instead of the vital, more proactive care) which leads to repeat visits further clogging up their practice. Healthcare workers (nurses, pharmacists, etc) are understaffed leading to even higher rates of medical malpractice, sometimes it goes undetected because the patient just dies (seen that way too often).

I am not saying the current reform is the best answer to the problem, but I believe you sometimes have to "put feet on your prayers" so to speak meaning take SOME kind of action and if it isn't working fix accordingly. That's the great thing about this country, nothing is set in stone and can be shaped and fixed and made better.

As for what I think is the proper course of action for this country's healthcare industry, there should be a realm totally dedicated to preventative healthcare coupled with privatized treatment care. The preventative healthcare side should be socialized (everyone needs to at least have a freakin physical once a year) so that the really bad stuff can be caught early and treated more efficiently. The preventative side will just make sure the country is full of healthy and aware individuals (MRIs, ct scans, stress tests, blood tests, etc). This way if something bad comes up early, the insurance companies aren't barring such critical tests as MRIs just because they think it costs too much. Now since the people will actually know what's wrong with them, privatize treatment care so it is up to individuals whether they fix their problems or not. I would lump in this all physical therapy, hospital stays, procedures, surgeries, critical care, and to a degree urgent care (if it is a pre-existing condition). This way people already know their problems and insurance companies can set premiums more efficiently instead of charging everyone the most they can get. The best part is, if you don't want to pay, don't pay but you can't complain about not knowing what's going on anymore. The preventative healthcare side told you what's wrong with you, now you decide if you want to fix it.

This will never happen, Doctors on the preventative side would probably be hourly wage workers and would have a cap on their earning potential which they wouldn't like. Insurance companies would likely loose a pool of potential patients because i'm sure plenty of "healthy" people would opt not to have insurance since they already know what's going on with their bodies. Healthcare will always be screwed up in this country, which consequently means i'll always have a job.

But to finish, i would rather everyone get care and pay higher taxes (like every other developed country in this world) than pay my supercheap premium and have the best care in the world yet see working poor individuals die because of something totally treatable but unaffordable in terms of care. Call me a socialist if you like, I just think i care about my fellow countrymen.

 

[Bob Saget]

socialist

privatized healthcare works, IF all parties involved in providing it (doctors, insurers, hospital administrators, etc) are moral people. When you work in an industry where other people's lives can be eliminated by your decisions however, some regulatory body needs to not only be watching, but regulating when necessary.
I work in healthcare, "death panels" are real TODAY. A board of trustees will meet to discuss whether it is worth it to perform an operation on a person that may potentially save their life today. Insurance companies TODAY habitually deny care or set unreasonable premiums and copays so the people that truly need insurance cannot afford it (so they go to the emergency room and we all pay). Doctors TODAY that have high insurance premiums to pay pack their schedules with patients and give sub par care (instead of the vital, more proactive care) which leads to repeat visits further clogging up their practice. Healthcare workers (nurses, pharmacists, etc) are understaffed leading to even higher rates of medical malpractice, sometimes it goes undetected because the patient just dies (seen that way too often).

I am not saying the current reform is the best answer to the problem, but I believe you sometimes have to "put feet on your prayers" so to speak meaning take SOME kind of action and if it isn't working fix accordingly. That's the great thing about this country, nothing is set in stone and can be shaped and fixed and made better.

As for what I think is the proper course of action for this country's healthcare industry, there should be a realm totally dedicated to preventative healthcare coupled with privatized treatment care. The preventative healthcare side should be socialized (everyone needs to at least have a freakin physical once a year) so that the really bad stuff can be caught early and treated more efficiently. The preventative side will just make sure the country is full of healthy and aware individuals (MRIs, ct scans, stress tests, blood tests, etc). This way if something bad comes up early, the insurance companies aren't barring such critical tests as MRIs just because they think it costs too much. Now since the people will actually know what's wrong with them, privatize treatment care so it is up to individuals whether they fix their problems or not. I would lump in this all physical therapy, hospital stays, procedures, surgeries, critical care, and to a degree urgent care (if it is a pre-existing condition). This way people already know their problems and insurance companies can set premiums more efficiently instead of charging everyone the most they can get. The best part is, if you don't want to pay, don't pay but you can't complain about not knowing what's going on anymore. The preventative healthcare side told you what's wrong with you, now you decide if you want to fix it.

This will never happen, Doctors on the preventative side would probably be hourly wage workers and would have a cap on their earning potential which they wouldn't like. Insurance companies would likely loose a pool of potential patients because i'm sure plenty of "healthy" people would opt not to have insurance since they already know what's going on with their bodies. Healthcare will always be screwed up in this country, which consequently means i'll always have a job.

But to finish, i would rather everyone get care and pay higher taxes (like every other developed country in this world) than pay my supercheap premium and have the best care in the world yet see working poor individuals die because of something totally treatable but unaffordable in terms of care. Call me a socialist if you like, I just think i care about my fellow countrymen.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

socialist

hope that makes u feel better peaches //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif

 

[Bob Saget]

hope that makes u feel better peaches //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif

a kiss would help.....

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

a kiss would help.....

i dunno, u probably haven't been to the doctor in a while, u miight have the herpes

 

[ahole-ic]

privatized healthcare works, IF all parties involved in providing it (doctors, insurers, hospital administrators, etc) are moral people. When you work in an industry where other people's lives can be eliminated by your decisions however, some regulatory body needs to not only be watching, but regulating when necessary.
I work in healthcare, "death panels" are real TODAY. A board of trustees will meet to discuss whether it is worth it to perform an operation on a person that may potentially save their life today. Insurance companies TODAY habitually deny care or set unreasonable premiums and copays so the people that truly need insurance cannot afford it (so they go to the emergency room and we all pay). Doctors TODAY that have high insurance premiums to pay pack their schedules with patients and give sub par care (instead of the vital, more proactive care) which leads to repeat visits further clogging up their practice. Healthcare workers (nurses, pharmacists, etc) are understaffed leading to even higher rates of medical malpractice, sometimes it goes undetected because the patient just dies (seen that way too often).

I am not saying the current reform is the best answer to the problem, but I believe you sometimes have to "put feet on your prayers" so to speak meaning take SOME kind of action and if it isn't working fix accordingly. That's the great thing about this country, nothing is set in stone and can be shaped and fixed and made better.

As for what I think is the proper course of action for this country's healthcare industry, there should be a realm totally dedicated to preventative healthcare coupled with privatized treatment care. The preventative healthcare side should be socialized (everyone needs to at least have a freakin physical once a year) so that the really bad stuff can be caught early and treated more efficiently. The preventative side will just make sure the country is full of healthy and aware individuals (MRIs, ct scans, stress tests, blood tests, etc). This way if something bad comes up early, the insurance companies aren't barring such critical tests as MRIs just because they think it costs too much. Now since the people will actually know what's wrong with them, privatize treatment care so it is up to individuals whether they fix their problems or not. I would lump in this all physical therapy, hospital stays, procedures, surgeries, critical care, and to a degree urgent care (if it is a pre-existing condition). This way people already know their problems and insurance companies can set premiums more efficiently instead of charging everyone the most they can get. The best part is, if you don't want to pay, don't pay but you can't complain about not knowing what's going on anymore. The preventative healthcare side told you what's wrong with you, now you decide if you want to fix it.

This will never happen, Doctors on the preventative side would probably be hourly wage workers and would have a cap on their earning potential which they wouldn't like. Insurance companies would likely loose a pool of potential patients because i'm sure plenty of "healthy" people would opt not to have insurance since they already know what's going on with their bodies. Healthcare will always be screwed up in this country, which consequently means i'll always have a job.

But to finish, i would rather everyone get care and pay higher taxes (like every other developed country in this world) than pay my supercheap premium and have the best care in the world yet see working poor individuals die because of something totally treatable but unaffordable in terms of care. Call me a socialist if you like, I just think i care about my fellow countrymen.

The rest of us want to help our fellow countrymen too... and we want to do it without robbing the country. That's why we are in favor of repealing this failure and doing it right. To imply that anyone in favor of repeal does not care, and anyone in favor of the current law on the books is compassionate is ignorant.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

The rest of us want to help our fellow countrymen too... and we want to do it without robbing the country. That's why we are in favor of repealing this failure and doing it right. To imply that anyone in favor of repeal does not care, and anyone in favor of the current law on the books is compassionate is ignorant.

i didn't say that, and you coming up with those assumptions is what we in the medical world call "projecting." its when you take something personal that really isn't a personal attack because of some deep insecurities you hold. In other words, get over yourself, i have a right to my opinion and it does not have to have anything to do with you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[ahole-ic]

i didn't say that, and you coming up with those assumptions is what we in the medical world call "projecting." its when you take something personal that really isn't a personal attack because of some deep insecurities you hold. In other words, get over yourself, i have a right to my opinion and it does not have to have anything to do with you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Then I suppose you just "projected" because I didn't say YOU were ignorant. I pointed out some obvious facts. Lol... if you were half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't even post.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

you are right, i shouldn't post, because i make alot of ignorant people have to look at themselves in the mirror and deal with their own problems. I find the more truth i say or the more open truthful debates i start around here, the more some less enlightened people get defensive. I guess insecurity is rampant here. Funny thing is this thread was about political ethics not healthcare, but me saying my opinion always gets undies in a bunch.

 

[ahole-ic]

you are right, i shouldn't post, because i make alot of ignorant people have to look at themselves in the mirror and deal with their own problems. I find the more truth i say or the more open truthful debates i start around here, the more some less enlightened people get defensive. I guess insecurity is rampant here. Funny thing is this thread was about political ethics not healthcare, but me saying my opinion always gets undies in a bunch.

Lol! Nobody's undies are in a bunch except yours. You have delusions of grandeur. You accused me of something I didn't do because you're insecure. Then you accused me of being insecure. I pointed out that you're a hypocrite and gave you some good advice. If you didn't speak, nobody could possibly know how much intelligence you lack.... but now you've removed all doubt.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

you are right, i shouldn't post, because i make alot of ignorant people have to look at themselves in the mirror and deal with their own problems. I find the more truth i say or the more open truthful debates i start around here, the more some less enlightened people get defensive. I guess insecurity is rampant here. Funny thing is this thread was about political ethics not healthcare, but me saying my opinion always gets undies in a bunch.

You can act like this is some type of moral highground thing is anything that deals with government getting involved ends up being a mess. Who was the number 1 denier of health care services in 2009? I will give you a hint it was government ran and was almost 2% worse than any insurance company that insured more than a few thousand people.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

ah personal attacks, just like a child. Adults have debates without having to lash out and speak on someone's intelligence. You don't agree with me fine leave it there. Your ignorance is your lack of ability to see that there are more opinions than your own that can be right. But if that's the way you want to live your life go ahead, God speed. I wish you the very best.

 

[ahole-ic]

LOL! This has nothing to do with your opinion. I could debate that respectfully all day long as I've proven in this thread. I'm just telling the truth about YOU... lol I guess the truth hurts.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

You can act like this is some type of moral highground thing is anything that deals with government getting involved ends up being a mess. Who was the number 1 denier of health care services in 2009? I will give you a hint it was government ran and was almost 2% worse than any insurance company that insured more than a few thousand people.

i never said the govt's plan was morally high or even that anyone should support. i gave an opinion that its better to do something than nothing and let the now old system continue to deteriorate. I don't expect to be agreed with either. As for the govt denying services i'm not surprised, its not a bottomless pit. They have a lot of other entities to support after all.