Repubs stab Obama in the back after he plays nice

[ahole-ic]

I do agree with you though, our country will surely falter if the CEOs dont get their mulit-billion dollar bonuses each quarter.

irrelevant, incoherent rabble.

We live in a 3rd world country? We have socialized institutions for the greater good of the society. Healthcare is as important as being able to buy food from the grocery store. Premiums should go up for folks who have issues but not to the extent that they are now. I shouldnt have to pay 40k for 20k of service, and in any case if I have an emergency Im not going to be denied the emergency room. so youll pay for it one way or the other.

More of the same. Socialized institutions are not for the greater good of society. Helping people earn their own way where they are not dependant on others is for the greater good of society. Making people social parasites is not. Healthcare obviously is not as important as food, or our country would have never formed. To make this claim, you have to believe that people could not survive in any way without it. Where were the hospitals for our settlers? Where were the prescription drugs? Now that I have defeated your premise with logic, third world countries usually are third world BECAUSE of socialism. They share a community crop and living quarters. Then there is no need to work hard and use your own skill and industry to get ahead because there IS no getting ahead. socialism is only ever touted by two people. Those looking to buy votes from freeloaders, and those people that know they are so worthless they will never earn the success they want. So they choose to try to rob those that DO have the success they want.

So lets deny people the right to reasonable healthcare and watch the middle class decline into the squalor that is every other 3rd world country without a healthcare system.

Where did this "right" come from? I'll tell you what, all of your present and future computers and car audioz are necessary for my very survival so from now on you must send them to me. They are my right.

LOL

LOL

Healthcare was on the ballot and it passed, thats anything but socialism pal.

Healthcare was on the ballot and it failed. That's why this topic was started.

Legally Im not required to drive but in order to function in society I must drive a car. I am required to carry insurance on my car when I drive it. Sure I have the option to ride a horse to work but thats not reasonable either.

You could carpool, call a cab, ride your bike, or ANY myriad of other options. YOU CHOOSE to drive so YOU CHOOSE to purchase auto insurance.

It is required to protect the other people in the event of an accident but I could argue the same for healthcare. If I get small pox and cant afford to visit the doctor and Im too sick to work then Ill go sit in front of your office and spread my disease to those who can afford to take care of it.

Your premise is flawed but I will go ahead and defeat it anyways. In your example, if you'd got treatment and THEN came and sat in front of my office you'd still be contagious right? Yep. You sure would. How come people with health insurance still die? Does healthcare ensure health? Nope. So your entire premise is flawed and defeated as well as your example.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

More of the same. Socialized institutions are not for the greater good of society. Helping people earn their own way where they are not dependant on others is for the greater good of society. Making people social parasites is not. Healthcare obviously is not as important as food, or our country would have never formed. To make this claim, you have to believe that people could not survive in any way without it. Where were the hospitals for our settlers? Where were the prescription drugs? Now that I have defeated your premise with logic, third world countries usually are third world BECAUSE of socialism. They share a community crop and living quarters. Then there is no need to work hard and use your own skill and industry to get ahead because there IS no getting ahead. socialism is only ever touted by two people. Those looking to buy votes from freeloaders, and those people that know they are so worthless they will never earn the success they want. So they choose to try to rob those that DO have the success they want.

We are one of the richest countries in the world yet we have the poorest healthcare systems of any developed country.

If you suggest that we should have unregulated healthcare then the cost will get out of control and only the wealthiest of the wealthy will be able to afford, just like is happening now. While our country wont dissolve, denying folks healthcare is going to take us backwards rather than forward so that a few CEOs can have bigger bonuses. We live in a much different world from the settlers too and if I remember right, a good portion of them died from now easily curable diseases. Nobody suggested that our country was going to turn into russia either. Rupublicans said that mixing races was communist at one time too lol. My father and mother work much harder than a lot of people with healthcare and they still arent able to get it so your assumption that everyone is a freeloader and mooch is not reasonable either.

Capitalism isnt much different from fascism either and thats what youre purporting.

Where did this "right" come from? I'll tell you what, all of your present and future computers and car audioz are necessary for my very survival so from now on you must send them to me. They are my right.

I would much rather have health insurance than a radio. For a country the likes of the US, I would think we would be beyond denying healthcare to the majority of the population.

LOL

Healthcare was on the ballot and it failed. That's why this topic was started.

Um, It passed lol, thats why all you Reps are butthurt and pouting. It wont get repealed.

You could carpool, call a cab, ride your bike, or ANY myriad of other options. YOU CHOOSE to drive so YOU CHOOSE to purchase auto insurance

.
I live in a different country from my co-workers, a cab would cost 100s, and 18miles is not reasonable to ride a bike. I technically have the choice but when you bring logic into account, driving a car is the only viable option otherwise I would not do so.

Your premise is flawed but I will go ahead and defeat it anyways. In your example, if you'd got treatment and THEN came and sat in front of my office you'd still be contagious right? Yep. You sure would. How come people with health insurance still die? Does healthcare ensure health? Nope. So your entire premise is flawed and defeated as well as your example.

Ok change small pox to dysentery. and if I had healthcare I would die in the hospital not on your door step begging for food.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

ill pick this up later, I need to work for the healthcare the mighty insurance gods have provided

 

[ahole-ic]

We are one of the richest countries in the world yet we have the poorest healthcare systems of any developed country.

Not true. People fly here from all over the world to have their surgeries done. It is a fact that has been under attack by the left for many years but an unbiased look shows you that we have the best healthcare in the world. We get the best doctors from anywhere in the world. We have the best machines. The healthcare bill deals only with WHO can access this amazing healthcare, not improving the quality of care. If anything it diminishes the quality so you fail there.

If you suggest that we should have unregulated healthcare then the cost will get out of control and only the wealthiest of the wealthy will be able to afford, just like is happening now.

Tort reforms, etc will bring costs down. If your main premise is to reduce the cost to make it more affordable for all, then how does openning it up so everyone HAS to have it, without increasing your revenue stream bring costs down? It doesn't and is a faulty premise.

While our country wont dissolve, denying folks healthcare is going to take us backwards rather than forward so that a few CEOs can have bigger bonuses.

What do CEO's have to do with ANYTHING? Nobody cares about them. It is a common defense by the left that CEO's have something to do with EVERYTHING. Unfortunately for you, we're not discussing them at this time. How about we work on reducing the bloat of government and getting it out of our way so we can drill for oil and bring costs down? So our employers can afford to hire more people? So we all have more money in our pockets to spend on things like healthcare. THAT is what makes sense. Not the other way around. You cannot tax yourself into utopia.

We live in a much different world from the settlers too and if I remember right, a good portion of them died from now easily curable diseases. Nobody suggested that our country was going to turn into russia either. Rupublicans said that mixing races was communist at one time too lol. My father and mother work much harder than a lot of people with healthcare and they still arent able to get it so your assumption that everyone is a freeloader and mooch is not reasonable either.

Capitalism isnt much different from fascism either and thats what youre purporting.

fascism is pretty extreme. So is the mixing races statement. It's obvious that you're a poisoned liberal and that's ok, but let's try to remain reasonable. If your father and mother work so hard, they know the value or a dollar and they don't want handouts from anyone.

I would much rather have health insurance than a radio. For a country the likes of the US, I would think we would be beyond denying healthcare to the majority of the population.

We're not denying it. I'm telling you that people like me can afford our own things and that's it. We can't afford to pay for everyone else's. That's what people like you do not understand. It would be great if we could just vote that everything in the world be fair and so it shall be... but we don't live in fantasy world as most lefties believe. We live in reality and everyone needs to work to better themselves, think outside the box, and make their life whatever they want.... not sit around and figure out ways to legally rob people who earn more than they do.

Um, It passed lol, thats why all you Reps are butthurt and pouting. It wont get repealed.

Did you get to vote on it? Nope so if THAT is what you were talking about you lied. You DID get to vote on your elected officials that voted for it. The people that voted for it were OVERWHELMINGLY voted out of office. THAT's why you're all butthurt, because it's going bye bye.

I live in a different country from my co-workers, a cab would cost 100s, and 18miles is not reasonable to ride a bike. I technically have the choice but when you bring logic into account, driving a car is the only viable option otherwise I would not do so.

Then you would need to move to the "country" that you work in to be nearer to it, or take a different job. There are plenty of options and your logic WAS shaky, now it's just laughable.

Ok change small pox to dysentery. and if I had healthcare I would die in the hospital not on your door step begging for food.

Oh I doubt that. I had a major surgery and was an outpatient because I couldn't afford the overnight stay even with my insurance. If i'd have known then what I know now, I'd have came and begged for my copay at your doorstep.

 

[nateberrier 10+ year member]

Not true. People fly here from all over the world to have their surgeries done. It is a fact that has been under attack by the left for many years but an unbiased look shows you that we have the best healthcare in the world. We get the best doctors from anywhere in the world. We have the best machines. The healthcare bill deals only with WHO can access this amazing healthcare, not improving the quality of care. If anything it diminishes the quality so you fail there.

I said Healthcare system, not technology. Italy has the Ferrari but that doesnt mean their roads are the best in the world.

Tort reforms, etc will bring costs down. If your main premise is to reduce the cost to make it more affordable for all, then how does openning it up so everyone HAS to have it, without increasing your revenue stream bring costs down? It doesn't and is a faulty premise.

There are multiple premises but the costs are above what they need to be at this point anyway. At this rate healthcare will burn itself out when only 30 people in the US can afford it.

If we can open it up to everyone and keep the companies in check at the same time without raising costs/keeping them the same then i dont see why not.

Big business stands to lose and thats the agenda behind the republican opposition.

What do CEO's have to do with ANYTHING? Nobody cares about them. It is a common defense by the left that CEO's have something to do with EVERYTHING. Unfortunately for you, we're not discussing them at this time. How about we work on reducing the bloat of government and getting it out of our way so we can drill for oil and bring costs down? So our employers can afford to hire more people? So we all have more money in our pockets to spend on things like healthcare. THAT is what makes sense. Not the other way around. You cannot tax yourself into utopia.

The company heads making unreasonable profits while the customer suffers price hikes is half the problem behind the healthcare system. Thats why so many right wing officials are opposed. You stamp socialism on the whole thing and push it through corporation funded propaganda and you have a good portion of the country voting against it without reading much past the name of the news reporter.

fascism is pretty extreme. So is the mixing races statement. It's obvious that you're a poisoned liberal and that's ok, but let's try to remain reasonable. If your father and mother work so hard, they know the value or a dollar and they don't want handouts from anyone.

They dont want handouts but at the same time there is no reason why I should be able to get healthcare and they shouldnt. I make about the same amount of money as each of my parents respectively and the only reason i get healthcare is because I work for a business large enough to provide it to me at a discounted rate.

We're not denying it. I'm telling you that people like me can afford our own things and that's it. We can't afford to pay for everyone else's. That's what people like you do not understand. It would be great if we could just vote that everything in the world be fair and so it shall be... but we don't live in fantasy world as most lefties believe. We live in reality and everyone needs to work to better themselves, think outside the box, and make their life whatever they want.... not sit around and figure out ways to legally rob people who earn more than they do.

When you get hurt and lose your job and healthcare and need someone to take care of you dont come bitching. It doesnt take much for someone in the middle class to descend into poverty. I know plenty of folks that work their tail off pushing 3 part time jobs and can barely afford to pay rent let alone health insurance rates because they dont work full time at one job. Buying a policy outright is **** near impossible and if you arent lucky enough to have a job that provides it then you are **** out of luck in the middle class. Millions of hard working individuals go without because of the capitalistic nature of todays healthcare system. **** the way you talk, if you cant hold your own then youre on your own regardless of the situation so we may as well take your grandma out back and put her down with ole bessy when she cant work anymore. I am a hard working tax paying individual with a healthcare plan but one day I may have some unfortunate luck and not be able to pull that weight. With your logic folks that could be helped back up get thrown under the bus. Chances are at some point in your life youll need medicaide or welfare or social security benefits. If you luck out and thats not the case then Ill point out that surely someone in your family needed it at one point in time. There are folks that abuse it but youll never stop that. Just like there are folks who abuse the power they have in the government. The fend for yourself logic doesnt work anymore than the socialist logic does. In a perfect world maybe, but we dont live in one so you have to have a little of both.

Did you get to vote on it? Nope so if THAT is what you were talking about you lied. You DID get to vote on your elected officials that voted for it. The people that voted for it were OVERWHELMINGLY voted out of office. THAT's why you're all butthurt, because it's going bye bye.

I voted for the officials that voted it in bub.

If it does get repealed then its not going to happen any time soon, thats a long journey of red tape and every congressman and senator knows it. And this is all barring a Republican majority for the next 20 years lol.

Then you would need to move to the "country" that you work in to be nearer to it, or take a different job. There are plenty of options and your logic WAS shaky, now it's just laughable.

Oh my bad a typo, you gonna play on that because you have no argument. The business I work at is in the middle of a corn field and purchasing a farm house isnt easy either.

Oh I doubt that. I had a major surgery and was an outpatient because I couldn't afford the overnight stay even with my insurance. If i'd have known then what I know now, I'd have came and begged for my copay at your doorstep.

Imagine that our awesome healthcare system failed you.

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

Fuckin' A OP, I thought the Repubs had cornered the little bastard and stabbed him like Brutus on Caesar based on your subject line...you got me all excited for nothin'! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I think its funny that the Republicans are claiming that theyll repeal healthcare. it will die before it ever comes to that, its pretty much ceremonial to keep their image up.
Obama is following the foot steps of Clinton and his approval rating is higher than ever

There is a bunch of lies and rhetoric behind what is to be said about the healthcare bill. This was pushed out because republicans are driven by corporations and bureaucratic motives. ????????????????????????

And to be honest I lols. Even if the current plan isnt very good, the republicans dont have a plan so its foolish for them to try and repeal.

bureaucratic ? That is a democratic thing aka by pass constitutional government. AKA big government LMAO

 

[ahole-ic]

I said Healthcare system, not technology. Italy has the Ferrari but that doesnt mean their roads are the best in the world.

You might think that was a clever response but it, like most of your points had no relevance to the discussion. What does the cost of the ferrari have to do with road conditions? I brought up the best doctors + the best equipment. THAT equals the best healthcare in the world. There is no disputing that with sound logic, thus why you tried to do what you did there.

There are multiple premises but the costs are above what they need to be at this point anyway. At this rate healthcare will burn itself out when only 30 people in the US can afford it.

If we can open it up to everyone and keep the companies in check at the same time without raising costs/keeping them the same then i dont see why not.

Big business stands to lose and thats the agenda behind the republican opposition.

It's because it doesn't JUST hurt big businesses and CEO's. They are going to be just fine no matter what. My insurance rates already went up because of the healthcare bill. You're acting like it's supposed to help me and it's NOT. You're brainwashed and your entire premise is based on "getting back at the rich" when it's doing nothing of the sort. It's class-envy at it's worst and you're so poisoned against people that are smarter than you and earn more money than you and you're so jealous of them all you can think about is hurting them instead of helping your fellow man. Again, we cannot tax ourselves into utopia. Not everyone's employers pays for everything as you claim to know. This healthcare bill has cost me personally LOTS of money so far. It's just going to continue to go up when the democrats you voted for lied and said it would reduce costs.

The company heads making unreasonable profits while the customer suffers price hikes is half the problem behind the healthcare system. Thats why so many right wing officials are opposed. You stamp socialism on the whole thing and push it through corporation funded propaganda and you have a good portion of the country voting against it without reading much past the name of the news reporter.

Again I ask you, who pays for the democrats' campaigns? Isn't big pharma making huge profits off of the healthcare bill? Don't they fund LOADS of democrats' campaigns? Yep they sure do. You have no legs to stand on here bub. Hypocrite is the word for that I think.

They dont want handouts but at the same time there is no reason why I should be able to get healthcare and they shouldnt. I make about the same amount of money as each of my parents respectively and the only reason i get healthcare is because I work for a business large enough to provide it to me at a discounted rate.

If there is no reason you should get healthcare and they shouldn't, give YOUR healthcare back. There now it's fair. Otherwise you're forcing me to give a part of my paycheck for your shortcomings and I simply can't afford to.

When you get hurt and lose your job and healthcare and need someone to take care of you dont come bitching.

Been there. I would never ask someone else for their hard earned paycheck. I'm not a lowlife like that. If I didn't earn it, it isn't mine. If I didn't plan better then I deserve what I have. Life is all about taking responsibility for your own actions and inactions.

It doesnt take much for someone in the middle class to descend into poverty. I know plenty of folks that work their tail off pushing 3 part time jobs and can barely afford to pay rent let alone health insurance rates because they dont work full time at one job.

That's touching, but that's their choice. Nobody owes them anything. This idea of entitlement is just sad. Why do I owe them something because they do not have a full time job and I do?

Buying a policy outright is **** near impossible and if you arent lucky enough to have a job that provides it then you are **** out of luck in the middle class. Millions of hard working individuals go without because of the capitalistic nature of todays healthcare system. **** the way you talk, if you cant hold your own then youre on your own regardless of the situation so we may as well take your grandma out back and put her down with ole bessy when she cant work anymore.

My grandma doesn't ask anyone for help. So.... I guess this analogy is pretty hilarious.

I am a hard working tax paying individual with a healthcare plan but one day I may have some unfortunate luck and not be able to pull that weight. With your logic folks that could be helped back up get thrown under the bus. Chances are at some point in your life youll need medicaide or welfare or social security benefits.

No. You do not know me. You must just think everyone is worthless. LOL I have many trades that I can fall back on and make a living. Why? Because I realize that life is uncertain and you must always have a backup plan. Apparently, your back up plan is to beg.

If you luck out and thats not the case then Ill point out that surely someone in your family needed it at one point in time.

Also not true. My dad knocked a girl up in college when he was 18. He dropped out of college and worked 3 jobs to support her and the baby. He ended up foolishly having 4 more. He never borrowed a dime from anyone, because my dad is an honorable man. He would never steal, borrow, or take a handout from anyone. He takes responsibility for his own mistakes and deals with the consequences like a man. I have chosen to follow the same path. There is nobody going to bear the brunt of my mistakes but me. The same goes for my successes. If a person earns something it is theirs and theirs alone.

There are folks that abuse it but youll never stop that. Just like there are folks who abuse the power they have in the government. The fend for yourself logic doesnt work anymore than the socialist logic does. In a perfect world maybe, but we dont live in one so you have to have a little of both.

Fending for yourself isn't logic. It is how the world works. Even in your model of society SOMEONE has to fend for their self. Everyone can't just sit around and wait on someone else to do it for them. Your model is unsustainable. At some point, those people that work hard for what they earn will realize they can have it for free by doing nothing. Then why work? Why do anything if everything is handed to you?

I voted for the officials that voted it in bub.

Not sure why you're admitting that.

If it does get repealed then its not going to happen any time soon, thats a long journey of red tape and every congressman and senator knows it. And this is all barring a Republican majority for the next 20 years lol.

That's your opinion. It sure didn't take long to implement. There is no logic to support it not leaving just as quick as it came in.

Oh my bad a typo, you gonna play on that because you have no argument. The business I work at is in the middle of a corn field and purchasing a farm house isnt easy either.

No you focused on me making fun of your typo because the REST of my statements there were too strong for you to overcome, so you tried to divert. No cigar.

Imagine that our awesome healthcare system failed you.

No, it worked out nicely. I am repaired and I got to rest at home in my own bed.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Youre an idiot for assuming that I was talking about a presidential election. When youre president has ties to oil companies and Saudi Oil Guru's hes gonna take some heat, just //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif whether responsible or not. I think Obama would take the same heat if he were to do the same things.

Since Obama wants 7 dollar a gallon gas Fuel Taxes Must Rise, Harvard Researchers Say - NYTimes.com and gas is up to 3 a gallon now and since they monotized the debt Bernanke Promised Congress The Federal Reserve Would Not Monetize The Debt But Now That Is Exactly What Is Happening : Truth is Contagious for a weaker dollar now so that would put gas at 5 bucks a gallon what will your excuse be? Didn't Obama want energy prices to sky rocket? yes he said so in 2008.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

alright, now lets hear about what happened on the right under reagan and both bushes. As i said before the Dems are not perfect and did plenty of fuxed up stuff. I am aware of it and i acknowledge all of it. I feel the REpubs did worse stuff (i would list my findings, but a man's gotta go to work soon at my healthcare job).

Even if it were true Repubs are worse or have done worse things, I find it sad so many Americans like yourself are content with a government based on voting for the lesser of two evils. Your statements here make it obvious, but you hear the same sentiment in a more subtle way every day: when an American is asked why they are a repub or democrat, notice how often the person will respond that they favor the political party they do because the other side wants to rob them, kill their grandma, steal their life savings, or let mexicans **** their sister. Far too often we align ourselves with a party due to it being the lesser of two evils. I dont know about you, but imo we deserve a better system than that.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

As for the general arguments here about socialized healthcare, and obamacare, many of these questions/concerns/arguments have no simple answer, and is EXACTLY why socialized healthcare hasn't passed into law sooner (like before any of us were born). Yes it would be nice, and civilized, to have a healthcare system that allows people who fall through the cracks to still get health care. But yes its also true its not fair to force other people to pay for that medical coverage. Both sides have compelling arguments, there is no cut and dry solution. This is why if we were to adopt a socialized healthcare system, we should have answered these questions BEFORE passing any laws. We, as a society, and our govt, have not done the due diligence required to answers these questions. As usual, legislation in D.C. was passed (and now refuted) based not on intelligent and well thought out logic, but was instead implemented based on political motives.

Who wins here? You and me, the citizens? Nope. Like ecrack said, we are all already paying for this system, and its a lame duck. Even big business, like pharma companies, arent winning... their future is uncertain. The only winners in this argument... are the politicians. The more extreme the legislation, and logic, comin from DC becomes, the more polarized the population becomes. The more polarized we all are, the more we will put up with from a shitty government just so long as 'our side' doesnt let 'their side' take over too much control.

 

[Wacky7 10+ year member]

Well to me they are all criminal. I don't see or understand from all this greed from both side. we need to fired all the house of representatives of the senate and senators and also that need to kick all thoes lawers and book keepers that taken our money from the system and the Gov as well and they sit there and do nothing but be greed and make more laws. problems is we give out our money to other countires and BS out there and to many problems.we don't owe noone. I seen nothing but stealing from our system even people that work for them.all they do is ask for more money. we need some smart honest people to work in thoes office that care about people and the system of the USA. And they taxs us way to much just to pay there bills and there ways and war as well of there taxs. and medicare and wellfare and alota BS out there.As the poor right now are the one trying to make it. there no such things is high class anymore they are into the middle class and all the middle class is stuck in the low end class meaning we are freaking broke. and the low class is falling into a bum. our things are getting higher in price and economics going haywire there no balance in the system. we need our Minimum Wage is to get even in the 10$ an hr. then we can play with high prices. whats funny is that I call the O man is the big nothing blowing a air into the O like OH.He said alot of things that needed to be done and never done it. WHY not we USA make the money you know lundry money fool other country that we are broke sorry no money for you. Our money is #1 in this world why not double our richness by making fake money. Reset the system trun power off and start over. and our stock and bonds are no were near the 7 to 10 % apr rating meaning to make money. our WTC is gone that old system is gone because of the brush and the senate. we were set up. sorry for saying this but. we need to fool our self and make our self rich again double our needs we are #1 folks our money is the world now. laundry times by giving our self some money that double our needs then it will pay off in the long runs.

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

Politics in the dome always brings out the true moonbats...most are moonbats (lefty libs) here because you are young...as you get older you will get wiser and will most likely shift to a conservative view, unless you are retarded. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

 

[Rich B 5,000+ posts]

Politics in the dome always brings out the true moonbats...most are moonbats (lefty libs) here because you are young...as you get older you will get wiser and will most likely shift to a conservative view, unless you are retarded. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif