RE Audio XXX12 review in Car Audio & Electronics

[BassAce 10+ year member]

So are you saying its wrong to be proud of your equipment, or just wrong to be proud of a W7 or XXX?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

It's good to proud of equipment. It just has to happen this way were noobs are going to have a xxx, and talk down other people's equipment and be over cocky.

 

[MrSector9 10+ year member]

I never heard the new XXX, I imagine though that the review is correct, I imagine that the SQ of it is quite good.

The question however is (besides all the prettyness/bling) what can you buy for half the price that will sound just as goood or better? I find it hard to beleive that, that sub is the crowning achievment for SQ. If it was then shouldn't every SQ competitor be using one?

Also have to rember who the designer was behind this sub, most people do bash it since RE "sold out" but in the end one also has to think about what person sold his shares.

I woudl liek to try one but i would NEVER waste my money on it, also i imagine now that you would have to jump through hoops and then pay $100 for shipping on top of their $200 recone pricing now.

It is a sad thing that has happened to RE, I agree that focusing on dealer network IS a better thing for the company BUT that is no reaosn to completely shaft all previous supporters by jacking up prices, not offering services and basically washing their hands with it.

so ending my rant, I am sure the driver sounds good..... but i refuse to support a company that overnight doubles the price of their "support" for existing customers that "gave them the chance to get where they are"

 

[ga12r 10+ year member]

The question however is (besides all the prettyness/bling) what can you buy for half the price that will sound just as goood or better? I find it hard to beleive that, that sub is the crowning achievment for SQ. If it was then shouldn't every SQ competitor be using one?

Some people just want the ultimate that is offered regardless of price. Even if the increase in performance is only slight. I think of it like comparing a ZO6 Corvette to a europeun sportscar like a Ferrari or Lamborgini or even a dodge viper for that matter. They are all capable sportscars not always so diifrent in performance, but the price diffrence is huge. Nobody really downs these more expensive cars. Why down a subwoofer because it cost more. I mean it is totally diffrent than anything else on the market, some people will pay for that, and some of them arn't even newbs.

 

[MrSector9 10+ year member]

but that is kinda my point, besides how it looks it is not the ultimate. it is a very good driver but not a revolitionary SQ machine that will change the planet.

What then you mean to say is:

"Some people just want the ultimate look regardless of performance or price"

I agree that it looks cool, speaiclly installed in a car and like i alreayd stated i am sure it is a good SQ driver BUT for the price much better can be had in terms of SQ performance probaly even in SQL performance. So then it is obvious that most will fork over the money for the "blingyness" of the driver, much like an audiobahn and US amps I would say LOVE that fact.

 

[ga12r 10+ year member]

but that is kinda my point, besides how it looks it is not the ultimate. it is a very good driver but not a revolitionary SQ machine that will change the planet.
What then you mean to say is:

"Some people just want the ultimate look regardless of performance or price"

I agree that it looks cool, speaiclly installed in a car and like i alreayd stated i am sure it is a good SQ driver BUT for the price much better can be had in terms of SQ performance probaly even in SQL performance. So then it is obvious that most will fork over the money for the "blingyness" of the driver, much like an audiobahn and US amps I would say LOVE that fact.

I would have to disagree in you saying the XXX is all looks, it does push the limit in a few areas like Xmax(not that that is a end all parameter to judge all subs by). I dont believe any other driver offers those numbers. It is a very capable sub beyond just looks.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Its Metal, Magnet, Plastic, and cloth...

Last I checked every sub under the rainbow has these components.

Its install based. No one can lie CA&E is a biased review. Does that mean that the new XXX is a bad sub. NO. It may very well be a very nice sub. I can't judge because I have yet to hear a new one. What sounds great one place may sound like *** in another install. It is almost impossible to do a fair test that would compare sub A to Sub B.

Drop in tests arent any good, unless the box specs for each driver are identical. Because it would be an unfair advantage to the driver that the box was built for.

Changing boxes is no good either, because then you run into enviromental issues, such ***...vehilcle frequency response, and cabin gain.

If anyone learned anything from that little get together in W. Virginia called the Great 12 Challenge, is that It is impossible to compare every sub in every application just by one test, and that was what Loyd tried to convey from the beginning, that this wasnt a Vs. competition. Loyd and the guys did a great job, and gave us a base line of what each driver will do.

Let people get what they want and dont judge them. If a 16 year old kid gets an 06 XXX 12 for his birthday, and thinks its the best sub every, let him, because to him it is, and thats all that maters at the end of the day if YOU are happy with YOUR particular setup. Dont look at these reviews as ZOMG this is the best sub ever, Look at it more as a buyers guide, guiding people to purchase a subwoofer based on what the tests have shown

 

[Toxic Tuan 10+ year member]

Sealed enclosures are necessarily the best or most accurate. Why do you suppose there are ported, transmissions and horn enclosures for high end home audio? There has to be a benifit to these non sealed enclosures if people are using them. The problem lies within the "average" box designers. Many average designers and builders tend to forget the "transient" response in their enclosures...hence in accurate response and performance....hence...making the name of the ported enclosure look bad. What about incorporating...ported, transmission line, horn all together and then apply a perfect transient response? Result will be a great accurate ported type enclosure. Better than a sealed: Yes...in every way.

tuan

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

most of the larger T-Lines and horns ive seen have been used in Home Theater. Where output is a factor.

 

[bimma85 5,000+ posts]

Sealed enclosures are necessarily the best or most accurate. Why do you suppose there are ported, transmissions and horn enclosures for high end home audio? There has to be a benifit to these non sealed enclosures if people are using them. The problem lies within the "average" box designers. Many average designers and builders tend to forget the "transient" response in their enclosures...hence in accurate response and performance....hence...making the name of the ported enclosure look bad. What about incorporating...ported, transmission line, horn all together and then apply a perfect transient response? Result will be a great accurate ported type enclosure. Better than a sealed: Yes...in every way.
tuan

pfft, you don't even have 500 posts....what do you know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif.......

that was a joke if you couldnt tell lol

 

[90accordman 5,000+ posts]

Also have to rember who the designer was behind this sub, most people do bash it since RE "sold out" but in the end one also has to think about what person sold his shares.

"

this isnt a Scott Atwell design as far as i knew

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

most of the larger T-Lines and horns ive seen have been used in Home Theater. Where output is a factor.

Output down low. A couple mid level 15's and a few hundred watts can usually provide enough output for even the most extravagant HT's sealed in the 45Hz + area.

It's the 20Hz area where ported, TL, and Horn enclosures shine IMO. Though Hoffman's Iron Law tells us to be loud and low you have to be big. Which is why we see undersized ported enclosures giving peaky transients and poor group delay resulting in the boomy sound people often associate with ported enclosures. They put the same drivers in a similar sized sealed enclosure and get a flatter, less boomy responce and go abouts calling ported enclosures boomy boxes for rap heads and sealed enclosures what the true audiophile uses.

In reality wether or not you go sealed or ported should (IMO) depend on the driver and if you have the room for a good ported box.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Also have to rember who the designer was behind this sub, most people do bash it since RE "sold out" but in the end one also has to think about what person sold his shares.

Selling one's shares because you dont like the direction the business is headed and you want to head in your own direction is not selling out.

Selling out is selling your business to another company and then making a sudden swich to all dealer sales with out a good dealer network in many areas and dumping out on the consumer who got out and going. Then making up stupid assed excuses for it.

But that is for another thread that has long past.

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

this isnt a Scott Atwell design as far as i knew

I'm pretty sure he did design it from what I've read.

 

[Ryan Autry 10+ year member]

Sure, you'll lose output within about 1 octave of tuning, but you'll gain output below, and experience virtually no loss in output above. You seem to assume that ported = a gain at ALL frequencies, but that simply isn't the case.
Why would you prefer overexaggerated output at a few frequencies rather than accurate, correct output at all frequencies? In the proper sealed box in a car, the XXX 12 will have virtually flat response from 10Hz to at least 80Hz or so, although the topend is somewhat dependent on the vehicle itself.

PREFERRING ported to sealed is one thing, and I don't think you're an idiot if you PREFER ported to sealed, just if you think that vented is more ACCURATE than sealed, because it quite obviously is not for virtually all woofers in an automotive environment.

So, again, PREFERRING a particular sound is one thing, but assuming that what you prefer is anything resembling remotely accurate sound reproduction is quite another.

Sealed boxes offer vastly superior accuracy to the source material for virtually any woofer in an automotive environment, due to the transfer function of that environment.

Why do you need to GAIN output at any frequency when you have FLAT response already? With a large sealed box you can even still have exagerrated output below 30-35Hz or so, although it doesnt have the massively inaccurate and unfaithful peak exhibited by most vented enclosures in an automotive environment.

The XXX 12 is going to exhibit a fairly significant peak in its response between 30-40Hz in most vented enclosures in a car. This does NOT correspond to the natural lack of sensitivity to low frequencies exhibited by the human ear at all. If you wished to compensate for that, you would want a steadily increasing response, NOT a peak in that area (your ears have virtually NO deficiency in the 30-40Hz range, its only below 30Hz that you start needing ever increasing output to make low frequencies "feel" as loud as the higher frequencies).

If you switch to a sealed box, YES, you will notice less output in the frequency range your vented box was tuned to, and you will experience GREATER output below tuning, and virtually the same response when you get very far above it. You will also get superior transient performance from the sealed enclosure.

Great post. I agree 100%

 

[MrSector9 10+ year member]

I meant it more for the FI AND the RE fanboys more or less the comment on who deisgned the sub and also the person that sold the shares.

I am not saying he is a sell out or condemning him... it is just the way business goes, RE never really "sold out" someone moved on to focus on what he beleives is more important, the next person made some decisions that in reality will REALLY put RE on the map. It sucks for US but think if you were a shareholder.... you would LOVE the choice.

As for the designer.... I see some people in the same sentence/paragraph praise FI and then bash RE.... So i wanted to address that part of it.