Preferred frequency response curve?

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
What curve do you guys prefer?

I like the smiley face curve for the most part

Bass slowly sloping down to about 500 with the largest dip around 4k and a shallow rise from 12k up.

 

The Camry

Hey, I Try.
Sep 22, 2013
2,991
1
Western Oregon
Oh gosh, let me stop you before this even starts. A curve is based on frequency response and frequency response is not even close to the whole picture. You must take into account things like relative phase, Linear phase, group delay of higher slopes in interaural intensity difference(ITD) frequencies.

More importantly though, a curve's sound is based on those things as well as the way the measurement is taken. For instance, if i sit in my car and take individuals measurements around my left ear, then take those measurements, average them, and over weeks of tuning, come up with a curve that i like. Guess what, if i put that same exact curve on your car with different measuring techniques; such as taking measurements in different spots around my left ear in your car. I would then have a completely difference sound. This is because of three reasons.

1.Your initial response before eq will have different phase than mine and when you add your parametric or graphic eq to change that initial response. You will change relative phase in very significant ways. This changes the sounds clarity, and what many would call "attack" and "resolution"

2. Measurement(s) have to have a linear and repeatable way of recording before they can be considered useful. What my curve looks like would sound terrible in your car because the way that i took the measurements is completely different than the way you took them.

3. Each car has its own unique reflection, phase response, distortion differences, and comb filtering, and sound absortion. Think of having leather seats instead of vinyl. That kind of thing.

The only way a curve has any kind of validity is if the measurements are standardized across the board in all factors. Basically. If i sat in a brand new 2018 vehicle with stock everything that included a factory dsp, the tuned it with that dsp for multiple height differences. I could apply that curve to every single factory dsp in that car across the production line and it would sound the same. This is already done in some luxury cars.

ALL that being said. You can somewhat justify a curve for 0-300hz due to the fact that those wavelengths of those frequencies are longer that most vehicles in production and you can tune to the idea of the Fletcher–Munson curve. Basically its the psycho acoustic idea that we arent sensitive to low freq and we are hyper sensitive to high frequencies(up to about 15k), so if you tune low freq to be loud and high freq to be low. You'll hear everything as having the same loudness..

https://www.teachmeaudio.com/recording/sound-reproduction/fletcher-munson-curves/



 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
Oh gosh, let me stop you before this even starts. A curve is based on frequency response and frequency response is not even close to the whole picture. You must take into account things like relative phase, Linear phase, group delay of higher slopes in interaural intensity difference(ITD) frequencies.
More importantly though, a curve's sound is based on those things as well as the way the measurement is taken. For instance, if i sit in my car and take individuals measurements around my left ear, then take those measurements, average them, and over weeks of tuning, come up with a curve that i like. Guess what, if i put that same exact curve on your car with different measuring techniques; such as taking measurements in different spots around my left ear in your car. I would then have a completely difference sound. This is because of three reasons.

1.Your initial response before eq will have different phase than mine and when you add your parametric or graphic eq to change that initial response. You will change relative phase in very significant ways. This changes the sounds clarity, and what many would call "attack" and "resolution"

2. Measurement(s) have to have a linear and repeatable way of recording before they can be considered useful. What my curve looks like would sound terrible in your car because the way that i took the measurements is completely different than the way you took them.

3. Each car has its own unique reflection, phase response, distortion differences, and comb filtering, and sound absortion. Think of having leather seats instead of vinyl. That kind of thing.

The only way a curve has any kind of validity is if the measurements are standardized across the board in all factors. Basically. If i sat in a brand new 2018 vehicle with stock everything that included a factory dsp, the tuned it with that dsp for multiple height differences. I could apply that curve to every single factory dsp in that car across the production line and it would sound the same. This is already done in some luxury cars.

ALL that being said. You can somewhat justify a curve for 0-300hz due to the fact that those wavelengths of those frequencies are longer that most vehicles in production and you can tune to the idea of the Fletcher–Munson curve. Basically its the psycho acoustic idea that we arent sensitive to low freq and we are hyper sensitive to high frequencies(up to about 15k), so if you tune low freq to be loud and high freq to be low. You'll hear everything as having the same loudness..

https://www.teachmeaudio.com/recording/sound-reproduction/fletcher-munson-curves/

I'm talking strictly about the final frequency response curve. not the cabins acoustics. not the INPUT curve but measure output frequency response of the drivers.

 

The Camry

Hey, I Try.
Sep 22, 2013
2,991
1
Western Oregon
I'm talking strictly about the final frequency response curve. not the cabins acoustics. not the INPUT curve but measure output frequency response of the drivers.
There is no such thing as an input curve. You're curve is your curve. You're power response is your measured output of your driver in all direction.

You are completely changing the nature of your question and/or statement.

 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
There is no such thing as an input curve. You're curve is your curve. You're power response is your measured output of your driver in all direction.
You are completely changing the nature of your question and/or statement.
You input gain or cut to the raw frequency response to get a target frequency response.

 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
sub bass toned down, midbass relatively flat, slow roll off starting from 3k down and picking back up at 10khz.
I can stand the bass loudness as long as the midbass transition is loud enough to fill the transition between the fundamental and harmonic.

Right now these mids I got from c money are freaking sick. I have 250 to each and they straight up laugh at it.

 

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

 

Bout tree fidy
I got you covered!!

 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
I only care about what's going on
look here.. when got into actual sound i realized i've been listing to bass mekanik all wrong all these years. you don't know ho much the 80-250hz range make the bass complete! get you a good pair of 10" PA drivers with 400 per side. you will thank me later

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
I can stand the bass loudness as long as the midbass transition is loud enough to fill the transition between the fundamental and harmonic. Right now these mids I got from c money are freaking sick. I have 250 to each and they straight up laugh at it.
 

For normal listening I actually have the bass in the background and have midbass as the star of the show. I actually have 50hz attenuated by a lot for my own SQ preference.

 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
[quote name='Jeffdachef']For normal listening I actually have the bass in the background and have midbass as the star of the show. I actually have 50hz attenuated by a lot for my own SQ preference.[/QUOTE]

i set my sub high as i can without drawing the stage rearward its really a level matching issues when you have your phase/time alignment right..
you have the PWXs sealed? how do they do with the substage when its cranked?

man @ciaonzo sold me the best sounding PA drivers I've ever heard these things legit play do to 35hz up well into the midrange with ease and sound transparent. alittle dryer than my 6.5s but still very realistic maybe more so than my 6.5s around 250 to 500.. they are super clean even moving more than im comfortable with a midbass moving. lol i wouldn't be suprised if they have 7 ot 8mm xmax
 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,261
252
South Coast Metro, CA
[quote name='Papermaker85']i set my sub high as i can without drawing the stage rearward its really a level matching issues when you have your phase/time alignment right..
you have the PWXs sealed? how do they do with the substage when its cranked?

man @ciaonzo sold me the best sounding PA drivers I've ever heard these things legit play do to 35hz up well into the midrange with ease and sound transparent. alittle dryer than my 6.5s but still very realistic maybe more so than my 6.5s around 250 to 500.. they are super clean even moving more than im comfortable with a midbass moving. lol i wouldn't be suprised if they have 7 ot 8mm xmax[/QUOTE]

my sub stage is right there by the B pillar so its kind hard having it being dragged behind me since it already feels like its in front even at full tilt.

By itself it feels like I already have subs in my car with the subs turned and hpf still at 80hz. With hpf off or at 50hz its literally sub bass central and my door panels cant handle it even with all the deadening I did, lowest it played with authority was 28hz. It keeps up midbass wise until about 152 db then the sub stage completely drowns it whenever a 40-55hz note hits, its fine with 35hz and under material.

I normally dont bass loud anyways since I live in the city and I dont like shaking people's houses I only bass hard if i'm on the freeway or doing demos at shows. So i'm at most listening to at most 140db of sub stage max on the daily.
 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
my sub stage is right there by the B pillar so its kind hard having it being dragged behind me since it already feels like its in front even at full tilt.
By itself it feels like I already have subs in my car with the subs turned and hpf still at 80hz. With hpf off or at 50hz its literally sub bass central and my door panels cant handle it even with all the deadening I did, lowest it played with authority was 28hz. It keeps up midbass wise until about 152 db then the sub stage completely drowns it whenever a 40-55hz note hits, its fine with 35hz and under material.

I normally dont bass loud anyways since I live in the city and I dont like shaking people's houses I only bass hard if i'm on the freeway or doing demos at shows. So i'm at most listening to at most 140db of sub stage max on the daily.
**** wish you where closer.

for years i told peeps walls sounded better. not so many phase issues(trucks sometime with 2 woofers but 4 woofers port in the center works great) you can hear the woofers and the woofers sound much more upfront. cars downright **** for systems.

 

Papermaker85

Banned
Dec 15, 2006
13,746
25
New orleans LA
ditto on cranking it. when you do 150+ on music its actually pretty disturbing and disrespectful. unless your dowtown by the clubs ten you ARE the club. lol

 

THATpurpleKUSH

Smoke weed everyday
Sep 30, 2009
7,140
406
Banging gears and passing queeers
look here.. when got into actual sound i realized i've been listing to bass mekanik all wrong all these years. you don't know ho much the 80-250hz range make the bass complete! get you a good pair of 10" PA drivers with 400 per side. you will thank me later
Maybe one day but for now it's all about spl.