Poor man's electrical upgrade

[Roland 10+ year member]

$10 of fuses, and a $7 fuse distribution block, to protect my car's electrical system. (besides wire upgrade)

I'm putting together my new system, this is what i intend on doing with the power lines.

Small fuses for the power supply line.

I have the stock 130 amp alternator, and my van uses 50 amps Max (max, lights, wipers, blower...) this leaves 80 amps to play with.

My PPI 1000.1 sub amplifier (fused to 120 amps) will have a 40 amp fuse in line going to it.

MY PPI 900.4 front stage amplifier (fused to 75 Amps) also will have a 40 amp fuse in line going to it. Might have to change it to 30A, 50A if my 10" sub blows the fuse.

My intent for this keep me from pushing my electrical to far and damaging stuff.

If i can get adequate volume with under 80 amps drawn, i should not need any other electrical upgrades. If not enough volume, then then at least i will know how loud i can play it safely until i can pay for other upgrades.

Anybody else ever try this?

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[Falcons 5,000+ posts]

not a bad idea. but your car can handle full power from those amps.

 

[Dirtrider4eva 10+ year member]

do big 3

 

[Leveldowen]

I have the stock 130 amp alternator, and my van uses 50 amps Max (max, lights, wipers, blower...) this leaves 80 amps to play with.

I think you're underestimating things a bit here. You also need to factor in approximately 6 amps per thousand rpm for ignition, about 10 amps for the fuel pump, a few amps for the ecm, tcm and assorted engine management electronics not driven directly off the ecm. Then factor in that your factory alternator puts out probably around half that at idle, and you're going to start straining your stock electrical system much faster than you think. There is a reason your van came with a 130 amp alternator, and its not because they were planning for people to add 80 amps worth of accessories. To avoid doing long term damage to your electrical system, you're going to want to at least add a second battery, or plan to replace the alternator much sooner than you otherwise should have. As a parts guy, I see people killing alternators and batteries all day long running too many accessories without upgrading the rest of the system to support it.

 

[Kingstroker 10+ year member]

how does that protect your car's electrical system?

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

I think you're underestimating things a bit here. You also need to factor in approximately 6 amps per thousand rpm for ignition, about 10 amps for the fuel pump, a few amps for the ecm, tcm and assorted engine management electronics not driven directly off the ecm. Then factor in that your factory alternator puts out probably around half that at idle, and you're going to start straining your stock electrical system much faster than you think. There is a reason your van came with a 130 amp alternator, and its not because they were planning for people to add 80 amps worth of accessories. To avoid doing long term damage to your electrical system, you're going to want to at least add a second battery, or plan to replace the alternator much sooner than you otherwise should have. As a parts guy, I see people killing alternators and batteries all day long running too many accessories without upgrading the rest of the system to support it.

^^This. Where did you get that 50A number from? I think you may be chopping that short. But in any case, what you are doing may limit your voltage drop. I think it's unnecessary though, just be conservative with the volume and gains and get a voltage meter and watch it. And I wouldn't really call it an upgrade, more like system protection.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

do big 3

Yes, I did mention "beside wire upgrades" but big 3 will help, but won't protect the alternator...

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

how does that protect your car's electrical system?

It limits the amount of watts/amps you amplifiers can possibly use. If your amp tries to use more (by turning it up to much) it will blow the fuse.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

^^This. Where did you get that 50A number from? I think you may be chopping that short. But in any case, what you are doing may limit your voltage drop. I think it's unnecessary though, just be conservative with the volume and gains and get a voltage meter and watch it. And I wouldn't really call it an upgrade, more like system protection.

No doubt watching a volt meter would work also, but this is way easier for me. this is really just a tool to help limit volume gain.

I got 50 amps when i measured the amp draw with EVERTHING running, but i did not take into account 6 amp per 1000 rpm, so worst case should be 60 amps not 50. (2300 RPM Hwy)

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

No doubt watching a volt meter would work also, but this is way easier for me. this is really just a tool to help limit volume gain.
I got 50 amps when i measured the amp draw with EVERTHING running, but i did not take into account 6 amp per 1000 rpm, so worst case should be 60 amps not 50. (2300 RPM Hwy)

Not only that, but were you rolling the windows up and down? Rear defrosters if you have them? When the fans in your car (radiator, blower) turn on they will draw more at first as well. Worst case should be more than that. I just think you have that number wrong and this is unnecessary. But hey, it's not going to hurt anything.

Still get a voltage meter though.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

I think you're underestimating things a bit here. You also need to factor in approximately 6 amps per thousand rpm for ignition, about 10 amps for the fuel pump, a few amps for the ecm, tcm and assorted engine management electronics not driven directly off the ecm. Then factor in that your factory alternator puts out probably around half that at idle, and you're going to start straining your stock electrical system much faster than you think. There is a reason your van came with a 130 amp alternator, and its not because they were planning for people to add 80 amps worth of accessories. To avoid doing long term damage to your electrical system, you're going to want to at least add a second battery, or plan to replace the alternator much sooner than you otherwise should have. As a parts guy, I see people killing alternators and batteries all day long running too many accessories without upgrading the rest of the system to support it.

I would argue that adding a second battery does nothing protect your alternator. What do you think adding a battery does to reduce the load on the alternator? If you "overload" a car/alternator with 1 battery or 2 battery you will see a voltage drop. With 2 batteries you just see a smaller voltage drop, but the alternator works just as hard to make up a 0.3 volt drop (with more amps) as it does to make up a 1.0 volt drop (with less amps), right? So the alternator has to go full tilt in both cases to try and top off 1 or 2 batteries. Isn't going full tilt over a period of time what destroys alternators.

Not only that, but were you rolling the windows up and down? Rear defrosters if you have them? When the fans in your car (radiator, blower) turn on they will draw more at first as well. Worst case should be more than that. I just think you have that number wrong and this is unnecessary. But hey, it's not going to hurt anything.Still get a voltage meter though.

You're right, the rad fan and rear window defogger wear not on. I'll have measure it again.
If i wait until i see voltage drop it is to late, my alternator will be maxing out at that point. The poor mans fuse approach you will never have that voltage drop the alternator will never have to max out.

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

I would argue that adding a second battery does nothing protect your alternator. What do you think adding a battery does to reduce the load on the alternator? If you "overload" a car/alternator with 1 battery or 2 battery you will see a voltage drop. With 2 batteries you just see a smaller voltage drop, but the alternator works just as hard to make up a 0.3 volt drop (with more amps) as it does to make up a 1.0 volt drop (with less amps), right? So the alternator has to go full tilt in both cases to try and top off 1 or 2 batteries. Isn't going full tilt over a period of time what destroys alternators.
You're right, the rad fan and rear window defogger wear not on. I'll have measure it again.

If i wait until i see voltage drop it is to late, my alternator will be maxing out at that point. The poor mans fuse approach you will never have that voltage drop the alternator will never have to max out.

I do agree with you about the extra battery not taking strain off the alternator, if the draw is the same.

However, I don't agree with your logic about the bold. You're going to see a voltage drop with the fuses anyway. The way you're talking is that you're not going to pay attention to the volume that much, but instead just go until you blow fuses. No, you're still going to be careful. You should know your system and be able to be responsible with the volume knob in order to control your voltage drop without fuses. Again, the fuses here aren't bad, just unnecessary and a potential headache.

 

[cyn 10+ year member]

I have a stock 140amp alternator in my car... at Idle it produces around 60-75amps... 1200rpm around 80-90amps

I have a 2k amp , 300 watt 2channel now... Big 3 done... my voltage drops to around 13.1 to 12.9 with that on idle... at 1200 rpm its around 13.4-13.5...

I have a single 75ah yellow top battery... battery is fused at 100... distro box 100/50 .... you are doing over kill dude..

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

I have a stock 140amp alternator in my car... at Idle it produces around 60-75amps... 1200rpm around 80-90amps I have a 2k amp , 300 watt 2channel now... Big 3 done... my voltage drops to around 13.1 to 12.9 with that on idle... at 1200 rpm its around 13.4-13.5...

I have a single 75ah yellow top battery... battery is fused at 100... distro box 100/50 .... you are doing over kill dude..

Over kill??? It cost nothing to do, it take no extra time to install, and it 100% protects your electrical. What about it is over kill?

Pros

1. It protects.------------------ (NOTHING can be damage when under-fusing)

2. It protects all the time -------(You don't have to monitor a volt or amp meter every 10 minutes...)

3. It's cheap ------------------(It's the same price as a distribution block, mine was less than a D block= free)

4. It can be used as a tool-------( A. You can use this to determine whether or not you Truly need a expensive electrical upgrade for the level at which you play your music. INSTEAD of guessing based on rated powers, (B) you can also use it to set your gain levels © you can use it temporally to set limits before you can afford/get other upgrades)

Cons

1. You can't do short term maximum volume playing ------(without changing the fuse, Or putting a bypass switch in place.) (For more volume you could always add a capacitor when under fuseing)

 

[blobb454 10+ year member]

Over kill??? It cost nothing to do, it take no extra time to install, and it 100% protects your electrical. What about it is over kill?
Pros

1. It protects.------------------ (NOTHING can be damage when under-fusing)

2. It protects all the time -------(You don't have to monitor a volt or amp meter every 10 minutes...)

3. It's cheap ------------------(It's the same price as a distribution block, mine was less than a D block= free)

4. It can be used as a tool-------( A. You can use this to determine whether or not you Truly need a expensive electrical upgrade for the level at which you play your music. INSTEAD of guessing based on rated powers, (B) you can also use it to set your gain levels © you can use it temporally to set limits before you can afford/get other upgrades)

Cons

1. You can't do short term maximum volume playing ------(without changing the fuse, Or putting a bypass switch in place.) (For more volume you could always add a capacitor when under fuseing)

I don't think anyone is dogging on you, just saying your going to be fine. I'd go with your plan of upgrades and fine tune everything. You know you'll be fine.